The Disco High Hat Pattern

[remicks]

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Thanks Skooter .....that second film..... ......
.... just check out the cats in that studio who knew what SHAFT was all about ......

While SHAFT may not feature the " off beat " high hat sound .... it is a song that's all about the high hat .....being the song to really bring its sound all the way to the front and center ....

You want a song thats about the hi-hat ? ..SHAFT is the bad mother cymbal crasher ...... once Isaac did it and made it OK .... there was no turning back ......


Disco Funk ......as to "the one" :

DISCO FUNK: As for James Brown, that guy was too busy working on the '1', a more important element to disco than strings or bouncing/off beat hi-hat.

sooo ...... this element to disco that's more important than STRINGS ! .... or the hi-hat ..... this working on the '1' ...I'll admit I don't fully understand it ...... or why its important to disco ....

So, would you be so kind as to give a clear example of a song that's using it .... and a good explanatory example of one that is not .
....................... thank you !



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[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by remicks

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Thanks Skooter .....that second film..... ......
.... just check out the cats in that studio who knew what SHAFT was all about ......

While SHAFT may not feature the " off beat " high hat sound .... it is a song that's all about the high hat .....being the song to really bring its sound all the way to the front and center ....

Actually, I think that distinction goes to these guys:

C 9

You want a song thats about the hi-hat ? ..SHAFT is the bad mother cymbal crasher ...... once Isaac did it and made it OK .... there was no turning back ......


Disco Funk ......as to "the one" :
sooo ...... this element to disco that's more important than STRINGS ! .... or the hi-hat ..... this working on the '1' ...I'll admit I don't fully understand it ...... or why its important to disco ....

So, would you be so kind as to give a clear example of a song that's using it .... and a good explanatory example of one that is not .
....................... thank you !

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I tried to find a clip on youtube of it where people were describing the one in a documentary about funk (I think it may have been called 'Make It Funky')

Essentially it means putting emphasis on the first downbeat, whether it be a one bar groove or a two bar groove. So it's something like 'BOMP-bop-bop-bop, BOMP-bop-bop-bop, etc....' It's an important element in funk that also made disco Disco instead of just high bpm pop or soul music. IKe falls in the high bpm soul music, as far as I'm concerned.

Disco Funk

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

Actually, I think that distinction goes to these guys:

C 9

Disco Funk

DF......... that's a GOOD one!!!

Definitely an important song in the history of disco . (including those bongos! ). It doesn't take much to get from this to YOU + ME = LOVE. I think Norman Whitfield deserves a helluva lot of credit for where he took music ...he was very original. And I have to say .....I think his sound and Isaacs are notably similar . Lets just say I don't think either was unaware of the other ...... and in this case CLOUD NINE predates SHAFT by three years...so credit for the prominent hi-hat goes to Norman ...(so far)... while also giving credit to Isaac for recognizing the potential of the sound and incorporating it to such star status .

So, I hear the "emphasis on the one" on CLOUD NINE correct?
I also hear it in SHAFT ....correct?






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[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by remicks

So, I hear the "emphasis on the one" on CLOUD NINE correct?
I also hear it in SHAFT ....correct?

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You can hear it on Cloud Nine, but JB started working on that '1' back in '63

New Bag

Later on we had tracks like Cold Sweat and this one, There Was A Time (which was originally recorded in '67 like Cold Sweat, live at the Apollo, as the outro to Let Yourself Go):

Live '68

Disco Funk

[remicks]

DF.....

Originally Posted by remicks

I also hear it in SHAFT ....correct?

how's about talkin' 'bout SHAFT ???


Excuse me for not being aware of this.... .... but this beat "on the one" thing is important to the disco sound ?



(and no ..... I'm not talking about matching "the ones" when mixing .....)


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[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by remicks

DF.....
how's about talkin' 'bout SHAFT ???


Excuse me for not being aware of this.... .... but this heavy beat "on the one " thing is important to disco ?

(and no ..... I'm not talking about matching "the ones" when mixing .....)
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I think the '1' makes a disco song more danceable than strings or hi-hat play like that found in Shaft. It's like the difference between El Bimbo and Chinese Kung Fu, to compare two dance oriented songs on that Tom Moulton dance compilation from years ago. Compare the grooves between the two. El Bimbo probably did get a few people dancing back in the day, but it sounds so dated and kitzchy, whereas Chinese Kung Fu would get you bopping and funking even today. And that's because the latter features a bass groove emphasizing 'the 1'.

As for Shaft, it's hard to say if it has 'the 1'. There is a part where there is a hard downbeat repeated, but it's on an offbeat. Not really the true '1'. The vocal section of the song definitely does not feature the '1'. The lack of the '1' is what also makes Barry White's 'You're The First The Last My Everything' not so disco-ey. It's more like an uptempo soul or pop song, without the funk, unlike his slower BPM tracks.

Disco Funk

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

I think the '1' makes a disco song more danceable than strings or hi-hat play like that found in Shaft. It's like the difference between El Bimbo and Chinese Kung Fu, to compare two dance oriented songs on that Tom Moulton dance compilation from years ago. Compare the grooves between the two. El Bimbo probably did get a few people dancing back in the day, but it sounds so dated and kitzchy, whereas Chinese Kung Fu would get you bopping and funking even today. And that's because the latter features a bass groove emphasizing 'the 1'.

The lack of the '1' is what also makes Barry White's 'You're The First The Last My Everything' not so disco-ey. It's more like an uptempo soul or pop song, without the funk, unlike his slower BPM tracks.

Disco Funk

Disco Funk ......you really like to egg me on don't you (you do it on purpose ....... admit it )

First you state that this " on the one" thing is an important disco element .... but then you go on to cite Barry White's FIRST ...EVERYTHING as an example of a song that doesn't use this " on the one " structure . DF ... as you well know (from discussions elsewhere) ..... FIRST .....EVERYTHING was a #1 disco song ....... which means based on it .... I should deduce then that apparently this "on the one" thing isn't so vital ......

ahem .......choosing to dance to KUNG FU FIGHTING over EL BIMBO JET .... you're building your case around that ..... ..... Oh Kay




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[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by remicks

Disco Funk ......you really like to egg me on don't you (you do it on purpose ....... admit it )

First you state that this " on the one" thing is an important disco element .... but then you go on to cite Barry White's FIRST ...EVERYTHING as an example of a song that doesn't use this " on the one " structure . DF ... as you well know (from discussions elsewhere) ..... FIRST .....EVERYTHING was a #1 disco song ....... which means based on it .... I should deduce then that apparently this "on the one" thing isn't so vital ......

ahem .......choosing to dance to KUNG FU FIGHTING over EL BIMBO JET .... you're building your case around that ..... ..... Oh Kay

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I don't think a national disco chart was published when that Barry White song was released. It was a #2 pop chart track. Probably #1 R&B. But James Brown had so many #1 R&Bs before that, featuring his proto-disco funk with 'the 1', it's not a big deal Barry got to the top on his dance soul track.

The Chinese Kung Fu track by Banzaii is definitely more danceable to than El Bimbo's Bimbo Jet. Kung Fu Fighting by Carl Douglas doesn't feature the 1.

Disco Funk

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

The Chinese Kung Fu track by Banzaii is definitely more danceable to than El Bimbo's Bimbo Jet. .

Disco Funk

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Skoo- teeer!!!
You missed your cue !!! :




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[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by remicks

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Skoo- teeer!!!
You missed your cue !!! :




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I dunno. Whenever I hear Bimbo Jet, it reminds me of the Oyster Club scene from Police Academy, not that there's anything wrong with that. :)

Disco Funk

[zeca azevedo]

Originally Posted by remicks

I think Norman Whitfield deserves a helluva lot of credit for where he took music ...he was very original.

I'm a huge fan of NORMAN WHITFIELD, he was/is a musical genius who wrote wonderful songs and produced immortal records. However, some of his musical ideas were borrowed from GEORGE CLINTON. There's some reports about NORMAN going to CLINTON's concerts in the 60's with a little recorder to capture some of the improvised grooves produced by the the master of P-FUNK and his friends. He used a lot of GEORGE CLINTON's grooves and musical ideas on his records for the TEMPTS and THE UNDISPUTED TRUTH, among others.

[remicks]

Originally Posted by zeca azevedo

I'm a huge fan of NORMAN WHITFIELD, he was/is a musical genius who wrote wonderful songs and produced immortal records. However, some of his musical ideas were borrowed from GEORGE CLINTON. There's some reports about NORMAN going to CLINTON's concerts in the 60's with a little recorder to capture some of the improvised grooves produced by the the master of P-FUNK and his friends. He used a lot of GEORGE CLINTON's grooves and musical ideas on his records for the TEMPTS and THE UNDISPUTED TRUTH, among others.

Fascinating input Zeca ..... I find that its rare that anything gets created in a vacuum and that's one of the things I enjoy most .....connecting the dots .
I've always found Norman Whitfield to be a curious figure because it has always made me wonder ....how did he emerge from within the Motown factory with such a distinctive sound .....it just seems to arrive poof around 1968 ... and then once he then found it ... that Norman Whitfield sound continues in his music from then on. You can tell when you're listening to Norman Whitfield.

So if it didn't happen evolutionarily ... just by being within the walls of Hitsville ....there has to be other other influences . Sure enough George Clinton and gang are by no coincidence in Detroit during this period (trying unsuccessfully to get signed on to Motown ....blew that one Berry ! )

Anyway that's most interesting and deserving of a more in depth thread of its own. .....






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[remicks]

Originally Posted by remicks

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Disco Funk ......as to "the one" :
...... this element to disco that's more important than STRINGS ! .... or the hi-hat ..... this working on the '1' ...I'll admit I don't fully understand it ...... or why its important to disco ....
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Let's get back to this 'on the one' thing some more please DF ... because I'd still like to get a better grasp of it ....

What percentage of disco songs would you say used this 'on the 1 '


.... so far the scorecard is one out of four :

Two #1 disco songs :

Barry White--- YOU'RE THE FIRST THE LAST MY EVERY THING
El Bimbo ---BIMBO JET

... they did not use this beat ..... yet both went to #1

Carl Douglas --- KUNG FU FIGHTING ... also not an 'on the "1" ' song

leaving :
Banzaii--- CHINESE KUNG FU as your one example of a disco song having had used it .....



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[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by remicks

Let's get back to this 'on the one' thing some more please DF ... because I'd still like to get a better grasp of it ....

What percentage of disco songs would you say used this 'on the 1 '


.... so far the scorecard is one out of four :

Two #1 disco songs :

Barry White--- YOU'RE THE FIRST THE LAST MY EVERY THING
El Bimbo ---BIMBO JET

... they did not use this beat ..... yet both went to #1

Carl Douglas --- KUNG FU FIGHTING ... also not an 'on the "1" ' song

leaving :
Banzaii--- CHINESE KUNG FU as your one example of a disco song having had used it .....



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Speaking of Kung Fu Fighting:

Is that Indian guy Biddu?

It actually does have the '1'. If you listen to the bass, the emphasis is on the downbeat.

Even a track like Accidental Lover by Love & Kisses has the emphasis on 'the 1'.

As for percentage, I can't really say. Give me a bunch of other disco song titles and I'll tell you if I hear the '1' or not.

Back to the disco hi-hat, I discovered another early example, from '69. It was Bernard Purdie playing on the "Back on the Track" song from the Jimmy McGriff 'Electric Funk' LP. "Chris Cross" also has it, but it's more in a reggae kind of drum groove. Check them out on allmusic:

Electric Funk

Disco Funk

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

Speaking of Kung Fu Fighting:

Is that Indian guy Biddu? Disco Funk

this is without a doubt one of the most bizarre clips I've seen yet related to disco ...... .. .....




Ya that's Biddu ....
....and the best thing about this to me is that it presents him in a lighter & most amusing vein .....his photos always seemed so heavy handed ..... good to see he was enjoying himself during his ride of disco explorations .... ....

....do you think he (and his burly partner) could have come up with even just a couple of other dance moves though .......

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