Was Elton John's PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM Disco??

[remicks]

*****

Since Garry has a current thread about Elton John I thought that rather than stray off topic on his I'd introduce a seperate tie-in one about something I've been wondering about for awhile.

To the point :
Was PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM disco ??

I have an MCA promo package from that time.... 1975 ... callled PEOPLE WILL DANCE (THE GREAT MCA DISCO DISC) and of the twelve cuts on it, PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM jumps out to me now as perhaps the most disco.

Someone ... a dj (?) .... has written on the jacket next to the title --- yes 120

So according to him it's nicely disco paced at 120 BPMs ....w/ lots of ongoing busy Barry White strings .... delicious french horns ....trombones .... ... fluttering flute ....prominent percussion ...bass... tambourine ... a Philadelphia theme ..... lengthy 5:36 running time ....

I've always loved this record from the day it was first released when I first heard it .....but I never really thought of it as disco at the time ..... I wonder why not ??

My error?? ...
What say you ????



*****
don't chu know I lo-ove lo-ove lo-ove you ...........yes I do !

[garrybcoston]

To give my personal opinion, I would say no; however, the song's style is indicative of popular (pop) music of the time, that is, basically all music during that era had a taste, style and flavor of disco, and could be danced to.

And I do remember some DJ's spinning it on the turntables early on in the night before pounding us senseless with familiar disco tunes.

Garry

[the disco kid]

it's disco to me, and MFSB did a very good cover of it as well that was played in the clubs too.

[Lance Andersen]

Originally Posted by remicks

*****

Since Garry has a current thread about Elton John I thought that rather than stray off topic on his I'd introduce a seperate tie-in one about something I've been wondering about for awhile.

To the point :
Was PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM disco ??

I have an MCA promo package from that time.... 1975 ... callled PEOPLE WILL DANCE (THE GREAT MCA DISCO DISC) and of the twelve cuts on it, PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM jumps out to me now as perhaps the most disco.

Someone ... a dj (?) .... has written on the jacket next to the title --- yes 120

So according to him it's nicely disco paced at 120 BPMs ....w/ lots of ongoing busy Barry White strings .... delicious french horns ....trombones .... ... fluttering flute ....prominent percussion ...bass... tambourine ... a Philadelphia theme ..... lengthy 5:36 running time ....

I've always loved this record from the day it was first released when I first heard it .....but I never really thought of it as disco at the time ..... I wonder why not ??

My error?? ...
What say you ????



*****
don't chu know I lo-ove lo-ove lo-ove you ...........yes I do !

I would say no it is not.


Bonus question, do you know what the song was about?

[pepper1dancer]

Bonus question, do you know what the song was about?

Was it Mr. er, Ms. Billie Jean King he was singing about?

[Simon White]

Originally Posted by remicks

*****



To the point :
Was PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM disco ??

I have an MCA promo package from that time.... 1975 ... callled PEOPLE WILL DANCE (THE GREAT MCA DISCO DISC) and of the twelve cuts on it, PHILADELPHIA FREEDOM jumps out to me now as perhaps the most disco.

[/size][/i][/color]

Brings up a whole set of other questions this. Wasn't it recorded at Sigma Sound and therefore with all the usual session musicians ? But it doesn't have the right amount of 'bite' because Elton's mainstream success and the powers that be wouldn't have allowed it at the time.

What are the other tracks on the sampler if this one jumps out as the most 'Disco' Remicks?

I would say it doesn't have a traditional 'Disco' sound and therefore is just a danceable pop record in the same way as Leif Garretts version of 'Feel The Need' is although the original is a Disco classic, or in fact most Abba records are....... in other words probably something that you would have heard at the time in a very mainstream, not very credible club.

[Lance Andersen]

Originally Posted by pepper1dancer

Bonus question, do you know what the song was about?

Was it Mr. er, Ms. Billie Jean King he was singing about?

Very Close, Billie Jean King was part of the story, but there is more to it

[nrgbeat]

Funny you should mention this song Remicks as I heard it on the radio the other day and thought it had a disco flavor too.

Another sang that I never thought of as disco, but was played in discos at the time was Barry Manilow's "It's A Miracle". I guess it's all in peoples perceptions.

[markydefad]

I've always loved "Philadelphia Freedom", Elton's tribute to Billie Jean King & the Philly soul Gamble-Huff sound. My take is that it was considered a Pop record using "disco" production techniques, similar to Elton's production of Kiki Dee's "I've Got The Music In Me." I bet they were both played in discos back then...but more outside the New York City snobbery arena. Kiki Dee's record has a lot of rockish guitar in it...so that seems to lessen its disco appeal--but Barry Walters has played it on his radio show. I think they both should be included--because I bet lotsa folks danced to these records.

[markydefad]

Listening to the Four Seasons' "Who Loves You" & December, 1963 (Oh What a Night) awhile back, I was amazed how "disco" these records sound now---back then (in 1975-76) they just seemed bouncy pop "radio records" ---but the "sound" is very "disco" when listened to now. It's the production technique reflecting the sound of the times..."pop disco" I guess. But these records were played in some clubs, especially outside the NEW YORK CITY snobbery belt.

Barry Manilow's "It's A Miracle" was another one....this did actually chart briefly on a New York City Billboard chart...

[remicks]

*****


It's interesting that this song made a ZERO dent on your charts isn't it Marky ....

I gave PF a couple more spins ....
When you play this record .....it begins with a 4/4 beat and dancing strings and right away the "disco' light goes on.

But once past the intro it reverts to a heavy 2/4 kick drum beat like the Thom Bell sound of the earlier seventies ....that THEN CAME YOU/I'LL BE AROUND sound.

I think that in of itself was just enough to tilt it towards being a more old fashioned soulful sounding song. Music was changing that quickly then that I think it gave it a certain retro tinge we would have been aware of then but that we no longer discern in it today ....



Simon , l'll post those titles hopefully this evening....
*****

[Simon White]

Originally Posted by markydefad

Listening to the Four Seasons' "Who Loves You" & December, 1963 (Oh What a Night) awhile back, I was amazed how "disco" these records sound now---back then (in 1975-76) they just seemed bouncy pop "radio records" ---but the "sound" is very "disco" when listened to now. It's the production technique reflecting the sound of the times..."pop disco" I guess. But these records were played in some clubs, especially outside the NEW YORK CITY snobbery belt.

Barry Manilow's "It's A Miracle" was another one....this did actually chart briefly on a New York City Billboard chart...

I'd go for 'Oh What Night' as danceable pop (and a great record at that !) but 'Who Loves You' as definately disco.

[markydefad]

remicks,

Detroit had the Doobie Brothers' Black Water + ELO + Kiss !!! listed on the first chart they posted!!! Remember the first time Billboard went outside NYC and all those cities in some chain posted all those ROCK records?--it's in the early 1975 charts....


...went back & retrieved this from the 1975 charts:

March 22, 1975

This week Billboard tried something new: A 5th chart from a U.S. disco chain called Uncle Sam's Disco ranked the top 5 from 7 U.S cities. This is the first and only time this was attempted:

By Audience Response:
Chart #1 = Houston, Texas (#1: LADY MARMALADE)
Chart #2 = Detroit, Michigan (#1: FIRE)
Chart #3 = Lincoln, Nebraska (#1: PICK UP THE PIECES)
Chart #4 = Des Moines, Iowa (#1: ROLL ON DOWN THE HIGHWAY)
Chart #5 = Minneapolis, Minnesota (#1: FIRE)
Chart #6 = Syracuse, New York (#1: PICK UP THE PIECES)
Chart #7 = Buffalo, New York (#1: FIRE)

The Compilation Consensus from this batch....

* oddball choices for DISCO:

1) FIRE - Ohio Players
(20 points; charts 1,2,4,5,7) (Reached #1 on POP chart)
2) PICK UP THE PIECES - Average White Band
(19 points; charts 1,2,3,5,6) (#1 POP)
3) LADY MARMALADE - Labelle
(13 points; charts 1,5,6,7) (#1 POP)
4) EXPRESS - B.T. Express
(8 points; charts 1,4,7) (#4 POP)
5) GET DANCIN' - Disco Tex & His Sex-o-lettes
(8 points; charts 3,4,6) (#10 POP)
6) HIJACK - Herbie Mann
(6 points; charts 1, 6) (#14 POP)
7) * ROLL ON DOWN THE HIGHWAY - Bachman Turner !!!!
(5 points; chart 4) (#14 POP)
8. * DON'T CALL US (WE'LL CALL YOU) - Sugarloaf !!!!
(4 points; charts 3, 5) (#9 POP)
9) * BLACK WATER - Doobie Brothers !!!!
(4 points; chart 2) (#1 POP)
10) * SUFFRAGETTE CITY - David Bowie !!!!
(4 points; chart 7) (didn't chart POP Top 40)

11) DO IT (TIL YOU'RE SATISFIED) - B.T. Express
(3 points; chart 3) (#2 POP)
12) * (WHEN) I'M A KID - Demis Roussos (WUT???)
(3 points; chart 4) (did not chart in POP Top 40)
13) SHAME, SHAME, SHAME - Shirley & Company
(2 points; charts 5,6) (#12 POP)
14) MACHINE GUN - The Commodores
(2 points; chart 3) (#22 POP--in JULY, 1974!!!!!)
15) * STRUTTER - Kiss !!!!
(2 points; chart 2) (did not chart Top 40 POP)
16) * LOVIN' YOU - Minnie Riperton !!! (slow-danicn" I guess)
(1 point; chart 7) (#1 POP)
17) * ROLL OVER BEETHOVEN - ELO !!!!
(1 point; chart 2) (did not chart Top 40 POP)

Observations:

1) mostly records that were BIG POP RADIO HITS;
2) at least 3 months behind what's currently HOT in NYC;
3) ROCK records do influence into the tally here; whereas they do NOT in NYC charts.

[remicks]

*****

This is so fascincinating. How and why did I miss this ???
Did you exclude these from your year-end list??

Odd then that Elton isn't a part of that group ... by March of 1975 he was sitting pretty at #1 for two weeks in Billboard with PF !!



Hilarious !! :

14) MACHINE GUN - The Commodores
(2 points; chart 3) (#22 POP--in JULY, 1974!!!!!)

Lionel's sister must have been working at that reporting store !!

(poor Tom Moulton .... this is why straight whites .........oh, never mind ..... )


******

[markydefad]

Originally Posted by remicks

*****

This is so fascincinating. How and why did I miss this ???
Did you exclude these from your year-end list??

Odd then that Elton isn't a part of that group ... by March of 1975 he was sitting pretty at #1 for two weeks in Billboard with PF !!

I know. I was thinking that Elton had peaked earlier than the first disco chart--but it was actually #1 Pop in the spring of 1975...so that's why I went back and looked for this chart.

No, I didn't used these in the year-end list because they seemed out of place...or maybe I just added the extra points to the records that did chart like Shirley & Co., etc. I actually can't recall...but I think it was the latter.

Hilarious !! :

14) MACHINE GUN - The Commodores
(2 points; chart 3) (#22 POP--in JULY, 1974!!!!!)

Lionel's sister must have been working at that reporting store !!

(poor Tom Moulton .... this is why straight whites .........oh, never mind ..... )


******

This was called a tad "behind the times"...records travelled at slower speeds from city to city back then. They were all way behind NYC...even the more with-it places. Hey this was from Lincoln, Nebraska....they're probably still dancing to the "Macarena" there now.