1000 Paradise Garage Classics 1976-1987

[qdearl]

I do agree with Quinny's point about being above reproach, no one is above scrutiny or criticism, we're all human we all err, do wrong and make mistakes - no one's perfect
But to not give a person credit for the things he has accomplished, I have an issue with. Yeah, it may be an exxageration to use the label "Superstar DJ" but it's not like he's the only one elevated to that level, I've heard people say the same about David Mancuso, Tony Humphries, or Ben Liebrand. They may not be perfect, but they're all talented and earned the respect from their peers and fans alike. I'm sure all his mixes probably weren't smooth and graceful, but since when is that the sole requirement to be considered a "good" DJ? (all these DJ's up here know damn well you could blend songs perfectly all night, but if the audience didn't like what you played, you might as well have spent the night blending margaritas)
So obviously he had a knack for pleasing his listeners, and that's a skill, not something any joe off the street could walk in and do. To some it comes effortlessly, others have practiced to the point it became effortless.
Simon mentioned that he valued the singers writers or producers more than he did DJ's, that's fine, but don't think that the DJ is immaterial, sure those other guys put together a great song, but you're now in an environment where you need to have a never ending string of songs,(that from one to another, might be as different as night and day)now whose gonna keep that energy moving from point A to point Z? Whose the one that knows during the break on "It's a War" you can bring in "Rock the Casbah" and let it ride (as long as you keep one finger on the pitch button,) not the guy dancing in the tight swedish knits, but a competent DJ will. And it's obvious that Levan was talented in that respect, just like Moulton, his remixes are things of beauty, he understood what would get a body moving and it came through in his arrangements, so I can only assume that it came through in his mixsets as well. (no, I never heard him live, too young, but I did hear about the Paradise Garage while he was there...)
I think it is naive to think that just because you play records, that you don't understand how to make records.
I know how to DJ.... now, but I've also wrote songs, composed tracks, rapped, sang back up and done remixes. and most people I know can do a combination of these things, and people who can do a combination, and do them well, definitely have my respect, having talent at something is not to be taken for granted (that record label exec talk.....) because everyone can't just walk off the street and be great. But the ones that do deserve recognition for it.

[djscream67]

You know it's true what people say, the DJ never gets any respect. That's calling the glass either 1/2 empty or 1/2 full. Nowadays there are millions of young spinners out there that doesn't even have a clue! For the most part each one of them were inspired to be who they are because of just ONE DJ, believe it or don't. These pioneers, infamous or not, deserved to be recognized, but of course all of us as human beings are entitled to our own opinions.

And it's not about this list of 1000+ wonderful tracks, ANYONE could play those same tracks however they wanted to if their inclinations were strong enough to move people on the dance floor. Larry Levan WAS one of those DJ's that delighted many radio listeners and club goers all around the globe, for real! In a way, he created a whole new trend of the Disc Jockey the likes of which no one was prepared for in his day, and yet here we are 30 years later, 'unknowingly', continuing the trend from where he left off. Let's face it though, SOMEBODY had to inspire Larry, right?

I heard his work and I love it. It's a shame I was too young for the PG as well, when I became 21 Larry was already gone (not dead yet), and PG was never the same again. He's one of the reasons why I became a DJ and for that I'm very grateful.

My 2 cents.

[Videoskooter]

Just throwing in my 2 cents...

How come a lot, and I mean A LOT of people, clubbers, musiclovers, Discolovers, current DJ's, know Larry Levan, talk about him and his remixes/sets, the magic he created in many clubs after all those years?

He must have touched some people, didn't he? He must have had some REAL impact, not?

And how come that I don't read stuff on the net about 1 of his major criticasters here???? You know who I'm talking about! Could be that his nick here is not the name he used as a PRO-DJ? Can't judge on that aspect but...I'm not jumping down on his side....yet!

Larry Levan (1954-1992)

[QUINNY]

I notice it's us Brits who are the doubting Thomases. Wonder why that is?

As to my credentials to doubt and criticise....no more than the next man, save for approximately 3000 nights DJing in clubs. So, unlike most of you guys, I was there doing the business (and using your own logic, must have been pretty good at it to last soooo long in such a cut-throat industry), in the same time span as Larry Levan and countless thousands of other DJs. I'd like to think we ALL did our bit to elevate dance/disco music to the level it acheived; we ALL had to face the same trials and tribulations in doing so and ALL had our fans.

IMO: Taking a purely pragmatic view. If Larry Levan was sooo much better than his contemporaries I'd be very surprised (my guess is that most other DJs only knew of him from his re-mix credits at the time), BUT I'm more than willing to concede that being in New York (for a time the epicentre of Disco) and building a following there would have placed him in a position to have his name put forward by his fans as one of the greatest ever DJs, to actually have his DJing annotated and because it was happening in New York (and not for example in Tuscon), that in itself, would elevate him above the ordinary (in the minds of many people). In other words, he was in the right place at the right time.

Does anyone else find it strange that so many 'great' DJs/icons can be traced back to DJing at the Continental Baths??? Psst!! Don't mention conspiracies.

As for the original list...I stand by my initial views.

[Dayna]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

I notice it's us Brits who are the doubting Thomases. Wonder why that is?

As to my credentials to doubt and criticise....no more than the next man, save for approximately 3000 nights DJing in clubs. So, unlike most of you guys, I was there doing the business (and using your own logic, must have been pretty good at it to last soooo long in such a cut-throat industry), in the same time span as Larry Levan and countless thousands of other DJs. I'd like to think we ALL did our bit to elevate dance/disco music to the level it acheived; we ALL had to face the same trials and tribulations in doing so and ALL had our fans.

IMO: Taking a purely pragmatic view. If Larry Levan was sooo much better than his contemporaries I'd be very surprised (my guess is that most other DJs only knew of him from his re-mix credits at the time), BUT I'm more than willing to concede that being in New York (for a time the epicentre of Disco) and building a following there would have placed him in a position to have his name put forward by his fans as one of the greatest ever DJs, to actually have his DJing annotated and because it was happening in New York (and not for example in Tuscon), that in itself, would elevate him above the ordinary (in the minds of many people). In other words, he was in the right place at the right time.

Does anyone else find it strange that so many 'great' DJs/icons can be traced back to DJing at the Continental Baths??? Psst!! Don't mention conspiracies.

As for the original list...I stand by my initial views.

Bobby Guttadaro,Larry Levan and Frankie Knuckles were the only high profile Dj's to work the Contenintal baths the rest were stars Like Bette Midler ,Barry Manilow ,Peter Allen etc that were the entertainment.
and yes everyone has a right to there opinion..and no one is perfect but to myself Larry was the king..and even Frankie knuckles will tell you as he told me that he learned alot from Larry.
Watch the movie "Maestro"and you will see how many people loved him.. Larry wasn't scared to try something new even if it cleared the floor..The first time he played HEARTBEAT it cleared the floor because the BPM were too slow.but the next time he played it the floor was packed..He made people feel at ease dancing to something different He made that song a hit..as well as many other songs that would have never gotten club play.

[djscream67]

Hey Q, just wondering, are we STILL on the same subject???

[Simon White]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

I notice it's us Brits who are the doubting Thomases. Wonder why that is?

As to my credentials to doubt and criticise....no more than the next man, save for approximately 3000 nights DJing in clubs. So, unlike most of you guys, I was there doing the business (and using your own logic, must have been pretty good at it to last soooo long in such a cut-throat industry), in the same time span as Larry Levan and countless thousands of other DJs. I'd like to think we ALL did our bit to elevate dance/disco music to the level it acheived; we ALL had to face the same trials and tribulations in doing so and ALL had our fans.

IMO: Taking a purely pragmatic view. If Larry Levan was sooo much better than his contemporaries I'd be very surprised (my guess is that most other DJs only knew of him from his re-mix credits at the time), BUT I'm more than willing to concede that being in New York (for a time the epicentre of Disco) and building a following there would have placed him in a position to have his name put forward by his fans as one of the greatest ever DJs, to actually have his DJing annotated and because it was happening in New York (and not for example in Tuscon), that in itself, would elevate him above the ordinary (in the minds of many people). In other words, he was in the right place at the right time.

Does anyone else find it strange that so many 'great' DJs/icons can be traced back to DJing at the Continental Baths??? Psst!! Don't mention conspiracies.

As for the original list...I stand by my initial views.

Quinny, you're just sounding churlish here.... as you say New York in the relevant time span was obviously the most important city in the world and especially in terms of cutting edge clubbing....so of COURSE Levan was "right place right time" - so why do you have a problem with that?.....you're certainly old enough to know thats how the world works and if you missed out on the 'right place right time', well then welcome to the real world mate! You totally negate any reasoned argument by comparing what you were doing DJ-wise to what was happenning there.

As for you 'Continental baths conspiracy' comment....that really does come across as bitter and rather predictably it come across as something else too !

[The Boogie Doctor]

This musical debate is very healthy. The central question that seems to be emerging is: Was Larry Levan (a) a truly fantastic DJ who earned his reputation through plying his trade to the highest possible level or (b) a mere symbol of a DJ, a vehicle through which people are today infusing their fantastical meanings of a mythological nightlife? Let's take this to the next order.

[QUINNY]

Larry wasn't scared to try something new even if it cleared the floor..The first time he played HEARTBEAT it cleared the floor because the BPM were too slow.but the next time he played it the floor was packed.

Any good DJ would have done the same and if the floor was packed next time....maybe that was just down to luck (or the fact he played it repeatedly until they danced to it, or so the story goes)!!

He made people feel at ease dancing to something different Again, any DJ worth his salt would do the same.

He made that song a hit..as well as many other songs that would have never gotten club play. How could anyone possibly know this with any degree of certainty? see below

Hey Q, just wondering, are we STILL on the same subject??? Today 12:56 AM

We're wherever the conversation goes.

Quinny, you're just sounding churlish here.... as you say New York in the relevant time span was obviously the most important city in the world and especially in terms of cutting edge clubbing....so of COURSE Levan was "right place right time" - so why do you have a problem with that?.....you're certainly old enough to know thats how the world works and if you missed out on the 'right place right time', well then welcome to the real world mate! You totally negate any reasoned argument by comparing what you were doing DJ-wise to what was happenning there.

Simon...have you ever wondered why all the best things happen in London? Obviously they don't and as someone who finds it difficult to accept the pre-eminence given to all things London (or in this case NY) I was merely using this as a means to explain the mechanics of his (possibly unearned) hero worship. If that sounds churlish to you, then so be it. You know something? I listen to quite a few internet/radio DJs, all of whom are broadcasting from London and presumably live either in, or somewhere very near to it. Are all of them technically very good DJs? Not necessarily. Do they all have records that no-one else has? No. Could there be better DJs outside of London? Yes. It's pure logic, isn't it. Yes, I do know how the world goes round, but apparently many of the posters here might not. The fact the world revolves in a certain way doesn't make it right and if one is searching for the truth on a subject, that makes the unravelling of the subject extremely difficult.

All: I guess what I'm trying to find out is whether or not Larry Levan was truly a great DJ, or is most of his reputation built on a certain amount of hype/fan worship/blind hero worship (the latter especially being of no valuable use to any discussion). Presumably, any regular punter to any particular club went there because the DJ 'connected' with them? To raise Larry Levan or anyone else onto a pedestal because they 'connected' with them is hardly a good reason to do so and rather insults the ability of all other DJs, doesn't it?

By 1979, Disco was a world wide thing with all DJs everywhere able to play the self same records as Larry Levan generally within a few days of him getting his hands on 'em. The fact that a 'top DJ' in New York would have had possibly 100 records a week thrown at him by all the record promoters means an awful lot of good stuff must have gone under the radar, don't you think?

Just some food for thought.

[Dayna]

Originally Posted by QUINNY

Larry wasn't scared to try something new even if it cleared the floor..The first time he played HEARTBEAT it cleared the floor because the BPM were too slow.but the next time he played it the floor was packed.

Any good DJ would have done the same and if the floor was packed next time....maybe that was just down to luck (or the fact he played it repeatedly until they danced to it, or so the story goes)!!
(Do you personally know of any DOCUMENTED case's where "any good Dj" as you say, Made a record such as "Heartbeat"..Such a mega hit? because This one is,Documented
He made people feel at ease dancing to something different Again, any DJ worth his salt would do the same.
What was your salt,your claim to fame? dont be modest
He made that song a hit..as well as many other songs that would have never gotten club play. How could anyone possibly know this with any degree of certainty? see below Taana Gardner is one of my best friends and even she will tell you it WAS LARRY that made that song a dancefloor classic~!!

Hey Q, just wondering, are we STILL on the same subject??? Today 12:56 AM

We're wherever the conversation goes.

Quinny, you're just sounding churlish here.... as you say New York in the relevant time span was obviously the most important city in the world and especially in terms of cutting edge clubbing....so of COURSE Levan was "right place right time" - so why do you have a problem with that?.....you're certainly old enough to know thats how the world works and if you missed out on the 'right place right time', well then welcome to the real world mate! You totally negate any reasoned argument by comparing what you were doing DJ-wise to what was happenning there.

Simon...have you ever wondered why all the best things happen in London? Obviously they don't and as someone who finds it difficult to accept the pre-eminence given to all things London (or in this case NY) I was merely using this as a means to explain the mechanics of his (possibly unearned) hero worship. If that sounds churlish to you, then so be it. You know something? I listen to quite a few internet/radio DJs, all of whom are broadcasting from London and presumably live either in, or somewhere very near to it. Are all of them technically very good DJs? Not necessarily. Do they all have records that no-one else has? No. Could there be better DJs outside of London? Yes. It's pure logic, isn't it. Yes, I do know how the world goes round, but apparently many of the posters here might not. The fact the world revolves in a certain way doesn't make it right and if one is searching for the truth on a subject, that makes the unravelling of the subject extremely difficult.

All: I guess what I'm trying to find out is whether or not Larry Levan was truly a great DJ, or is most of his reputation built on a certain amount of hype/fan worship/blind hero worship (the latter especially being of no valuable use to any discussion). Presumably, any regular punter to any particular club went there because the DJ 'connected' with them? To raise Larry Levan or anyone else onto a pedestal because they 'connected' with them is hardly a good reason to do so and rather insults the ability of all other DJs, doesn't it?

By 1979, Disco was a world wide thing with all DJs everywhere able to play the self same records as Larry Levan generally within a few days of him getting his hands on 'em. The fact that a 'top DJ' in New York would have had possibly 100 records a week thrown at him by all the record promoters means an awful lot of good stuff must have gone under the radar, don't you think?

Just some food for thought.

And the Contenital baths dig was SHADY~!!!

[remicks]

*****

As for the list itself ..... the selectiveness of it is suspect at best . Who comprised and when ? Is it meant to be Larry's favorites ... or meant to suggest these are the tunes that Larry played by these artists . I don't understand its purpose really unless what it is meant to represent is better defined .

Look up most artists on this list and what was played by them is very spotty .

Diana Ross ..... no THE BOSS ?
Donna Summer ......only HOT STUFF and BAD GIRLS (ewww)
Chic ......just CHIC'S CHEER !!!
Madonna ... not HOLIDAY ?
No Marvin Gaye , Spinners , Barry White , Bee Gees, KC , EW &F (except SIDE BY SIDE ) , Evelyn king except YOUR PERSONAL TOUCH ...(???) ....

NO MICHAEL JACKSON/ JACKSONS !!!

no DEVIL'S GUN , TURN THE BEAT AROUND , WE ARE FAMILY , 1999 , MOVE ON UP etc. .......

One could even argue , based on this list , that Larry's patron's were denied some serious disco... they was robbed ! BUT on the other hand , if centered around this list, Larry created a special sound distinctive to his club ... how much more special was that to go there and hear it ....and as long as everyone was getting out of it what they came for ( a good time) ... and I guess they did because they showed up in droves for years and years .... in the end does it matter if Larry played only Tony Orlando's version of DON'T LET GO ....and not Isaac Hayes' ?


As far as his status being exaggerated ...... the labels courted him repeatedly to improve their releases because they recognized his DJ abilities and dancefloor insights .

How many other DJs can you name that during the era had an album released with their name bannered across the top ???

I like a cover showing a strong woman in control ...... now that's sexy .....


*****

[Simon White]

I don't think anyone here is saying that Larry Levan wasn't important because its clear he was, it's just degrees of importance and more importantly, importance in context. (And that sentence didn't come easy !)

The list that sparked all this off is odd...Remicks and Quinny have both pointed out its short comings. What tracks are on the Larry Levan album, Remicks?

The double CD 'Journey Into Paradise' released a little while back was something that I never really understood..a collection of tracks, remixes by the man himself and errr...other Disco tracks that must have been played everywhere else surely?

[Cdnbob]

Just wanted to wade into this discussion, which on the whole I've found very interesting.

I think all of us have shared in the music overall, but I think what and wasn't played depends on where you lived, the clubs you frequented, the radio stations you listened to, and what the DJ's in your area liked and disliked. What was popular in NYC may or may not necessarily be popular in say London, Montreal, Vancouver, Seattle, Toronto, Paris, Rome, San Francisco, LA or wherever. If really pushed to name specific records I could probably name dozens of records that were popular in NYC but were flops in say Canada (where I live) and vice versa. I can recall that "Makin' It" by David Naughton was very popular for awhile up here but I know that it wasn't thought of very highly in other places.

Personally I was really into disco at the time. I went to the clubs. Did some DJ'ing myself. Bought the records. I was there in the 70's. But I have to admit, I'd never heard of Larry Levan until maybe 5 or 6 years ago, and even then wasn't really aware of his reputation. I was more impressed with local DJ's at the club's I frequented, other Canadian DJ's or DJ's names who appeared on records I bought at the time (eg. a "So n' So" mix). Thinking back to some of the records I bought in the 70's and 80's that I have in my collection, I don't think Larry's name appeared on any of them. (I could be wrong as all of my collection is in storage and I haven't seen them in years.) And before anyone jumps down my throat for saying that, I'm not saying that Larry wasn't a great DJ. I never met the man, never went to the PG so I wasn't able to witness his skills first hand. I rely on what others have to say who were there at the time. I have to trust and believe what they say is true and base my opinion on what evidence survives to this day. Which is what I think what all of us have to do.

Its all really a matter of taste. Some people may love a certain artist or DJ while others can't stand them. It doesn't mean they're wrong, just that their tastes are different than yours.

As to the list, I find it interesting and interesting to see but I can see/understand why some of posters on this board might have issues with it. In a lot of ways its just a list that's reputed to be what Larry Levan played, but is it 100% without a doubt an authentic list of what he played? I mean, anyone can throw together a list of 1000 songs and say someone played them. Sadly Larry is no longer with us, so he can't say, "yeah, its stuff I played". In other words he's unable to authenticate it for us. Therefore I think while the list is interesting and useful, I wouldn't take its value more than being just a list of songs.

[markydefad]

I've downloaded several other "Classic Paradise Garage/Larry Levan" playlists, compiled by former "Garage" dancers, from the net over the years and there is a similarity between them.

Larry Levan seemed an eclectic DJ who didn't always go for for the "obvious" record choices....so his picks by a popular artist might NOT include what we would consider their biggest hits....maybe more obscure LP tracks, in some cases...or just 1 hit and not the 3 others the artist had...it was not the "usual suspects" ...just very heavily slanted toward the early Eighties releases from the New York labels like West End/Prelude, etc.

And then add the oddball Clash/New Wave tune tossed into the mix of urban R&B....that seemed to be a signature of his "sound."

Those who heard him often cite that his mixing skills were not the best ---but he was a master of mood and creating drama on the dancefloor!!!!

[djscream67]

Way to go Cdnbob, good answer! I totally agree with you on the basis that everyone has their own taste in music, especially the closed minded ones (there's always one in every forum). I've been coast to coast from NYC to San Francisco in the 70s and 80s and I can tell you, both cities culturally are different when it comes to music, but each have the same flourishing impact.

Sure Larry play most of those listed hits a lot, most were only one hit wonders while others who were big in the music industry were played 'B-side' style. That had to be his plan, Larry probably didn't want to be or sound like that OTHER DJ. He truly was a unique individual, and as we here all know, his cult status is still alive and kicking today. I'm betting it still will tomorrow.

So love him or hate him, his contribution as a club DJ lives on. He truly was a MAESTRO.