Philly Soul-The Blueprint for Disco

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by remicks

Ohhh .... would love to have that TM seven minute version

I haven't taken my Nyquil yet this evening ....so I presume what I'm about to say is apparent to all ..... .....
This song is a nice homage to Al Green ....

I didn't quite catch that when I heard it, but now that you mention it, his vocals do sound like Al's. Funny about this track: I've had the Super Disco CD for almost a decade now. I've been a Philly disco fan for even longer. Yet, I didn't even realize that Jimmy Ruffin track was a Philly disco cut until I listened to it again yesterday. I don't how that one got past me! The way Earl Young plays the drums reminds me of The Ebony's Hook Up To Get Down, and a whole host of other mid-tempo dance groovers.

Jimmy Ruffin actually did a number of Philly-produced singles in the mid 70s. Another good one of his was Falling In Love... (I can't remember the full titled), which was included on the Spirit Of Philadelphia Vol.2 compilation. It was also produced by Richie Rome.

Disco Funk

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

Jimmy Ruffin actually did a number of Philly-produced singles in the mid 70s. Another good one of his was Falling In Love... (I can't remember the full titled), which was included on the Spirit Of Philadelphia Vol.2 compilation. It was also produced by Richie Rome.

Disco Funk

So there was no album done at the time ?? And yes .... you can sure tell that's my man Earl on the drums !
Looking at Marky's additional info TELL ME WHAT YOU WANT did not break the Hot 100 nor even the Soul Top 40 .....I'm guessing there wasn't the feel for the need for yet another "Al Green" tune on the radio programmers' tight playlists .

That makes this one of those secret pleasure songs known only to the disco going crowd ......


*****

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by remicks

So there was no album done at the time ??

I tried to find info on an album, but no luck. His singles were on Chess and Epic.

And yes .... you can sure tell that's my man Earl on the drums !
Looking at Marky's additional info TELL ME WHAT YOU WANT did not break the Hot 100 nor even the Soul Top 40 .....I'm guessing there wasn't the feel for the need for yet another "Al Green" tune on the radio station's tight playlists .

That makes this one of those secret pleasure songs known only to the disco going crowd ......


*****

Perhaps he didn't get enough promotion going from Chess? It's hard to say. There are lots of great Philly tracks that just never made it to the top. Not a big deal for me, because it's always a treat coming across an undiscovered gem on some non-Philadelphia International label.

Disco Funk

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Originally Posted by originalbigm

Having presented the above information I'd be interested in comments from the forum members.Personally Philly Soul was and remains my favourite style of disco. It still is a joy to listen to today.It was the class and creme de creme of disco.

You can't argue with the facts stated above. But, personally, I'd say Norman Harris was a step ahead of Gamble and Huff, with regards to club play. While a step behind in overall airplay. I started working in clubs in 1973, as a barback in my brother-in-law's club in Newark, NJ. Progressing to DJ in 1976, in NY. And the Harris Machine produced tracks were, as I recall, bigger on the dancefloors, faster.

And keep in mind that once a sound, like Philadelphia International, broke huge on the radio, "club" DJ's were less likely to push a now "pop" sound. It's always been that way. And all of the "sounds" that we, individually love and remember, were only around for a year, or two, or three at the most. Eurodisco being my personal favorite, as it forced producers to tighten-up the arrangements and brought a much higher degree of precision to the genre. But that doesn't mean I'll EVER part with my copy of The First Choice's "Guilty"! OMG! What an incredible piece of work from Norman Harris and Vince Montana.

There's a place for everyone at the Disco-table. But "when it actually began...?" That will always be subject to interpretation. Was it with "TSOP"? Or "Smarty Pants"? Or "Trans Europe Express"? It was all percolating, at the same time, all over the world. "Disco" didn't, simply start in the US. Although the genre is now a considerable piece of Americana.

As a side note: Instant Funk did have their 1976 release "The Philly Jump" (An AWESOME track, that I have the pro 12" of. In the same vein as Eleventh Hour's "Hollywood Hot".) on TSOP Records, distributed by CBS. Theirs was the only release on that label. And I believe the label was quickly abandoned for the name "Philadelphia International".

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by STEPHEN L FREEMAN

As a side note: Instant Funk did have their 1976 release "The Philly Jump" (An AWESOME track, that I have the pro 12" of. In the same vein as Eleventh Hour's "Hollywood Hot".) on TSOP Records, distributed by CBS. Theirs was the only release on that label. And I believe the label was quickly abandoned for the name "Philadelphia International".

The TSOP label was actually a sub label of PIR (Philadelphia International). The first LP released, from what I've read, was Energy Of Love by The Intruders in '74. Here's an album discography for that label:

TSOP Discography

I don't see Instant Funk's Get Down With The Philly Jump LP listed, so maybe they originally were put onto TSOP for their 12", but then were moved over to PIR for the LP release?

Disco Funk

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

The TSOP label was actually a sub label of PIR (Philadelphia International). The first LP released, from what I've read, was Energy Of Love by The Intruders in '74. Here's an album discography for that label:
TSOP Discography
I don't see Instant Funk's Get Down With The Philly Jump LP listed, so maybe they originally were put onto TSOP for their 12", but then were moved over to PIR for the LP release?

I stand corrected! I didn't think to re-check "Both Sides Now Publications", before posting. And they do have it listed in the Philadelphia International Section, simply as:
PZ 34358 - Get Down With The Philly Jump - Instant Funk [1976]
With no track titles, nor chart position.

Heres the info from the label of my 12":
Instant Funk - "Philly Jump"
B. Sigler / T. Life
Taken from the TSOP Lp: "Get Down With The Philly Jump" PZ 34358
Distributed by Columbia/Epic Records/CBS, Inc., 51 West 52 St., NYC

Item of note:
When I backed-into the PI list, I noticed the link for Golden Fleece Records, which has only one listing:(this may be what threw my memory off. I knew there was a PI related label that had only one release. I assumed it was TSOP. My bad. )
KZ 33163 - Trammps - Trammps [1975] (7-75, #159) Stop And Think/Trusting Heart/Every Dream I Dream Is You/Love Epidemic/Save A Place//Trammps Disco Theme/Where Do We Go From Here/Down Three Dark Streets/I Know That Feeling/Shout
This LP was first released, for 1 press run, on Buddah. But is not included on the Buddah list, nor text Discography. (I'd give you the pressing codes for that too, but my copy is in storage with a handfull of other pressings that I want to protect, but can't have accurately insured.)

[Disco Funk]

Golden Fleece was the Trammps label, I believe. It didn't really make many waves, although in addition to the self-titled LP, they put out a few 45s, like 'The Devil Made Me Do It' by Robert Upchurch (a Trammps vocalist) and 'One Day Of Peace' by Love Committee (who had just become LC from being The Ethics).

You saw a pressing on Buddah of the Golden Fleece LP? Are you sure it wasn't the 'Legendary Zing Album'? That LP was made up of songs they did in '72 at Buddah, but were extended by Tom Moulton for the '75 LP release. It features the band in a railroad yard and all decked out in denim outfits. The GF Trammps LP kinda looks like they're dressed up for Miami or some Salsa concert.

That 12" of Philly Jump you got is pretty valuable, seeing that on Ebay, someone has a copy that's over $300 in bidding!!! And my guess it's not even a different mix from the LP, although technically the mono flip is a remix (probably folded down from the final stereo mix).

Disco Funk

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

You saw a pressing on Buddah of the Golden Fleece LP? Are you sure it wasn't the 'Legendary Zing Album'?

Nope... I have the "Zing" LP. I put the Buddah copy of "Trammps" in storage a couple years ago. It never occurred to me that it was important until the Internet came along, and I realized it wasn't showing-up anywhere.

But I used to use it, with my Golden Fleece copy, to get in-an-out of, and extend "Where Do We Go From Here", when I was playing classic gigs.

[garrybcoston]

To me Philly Soul provided the bridge and crossing from traditional soul, R&B, Funk, etc. from the 60's and early 70's to disco once disco finally established an identity for itself.

Back in the day, there was a formula or mathematical equation out regarding disco's make-up; it was:

ROCK + SOUL + JAZZ = DISCO

Now R&B and Funk were left out, but remember, R&B and Funk was derived and evolved from soul music. There was no R&B and Funk before soul music.

Enjoy y'all and Merry Christmas.

Garry

[STEPHEN L FREEMAN]

Originally Posted by originalbigm

In addition to making hits, G&H allowed MFSB to stretch out in the grooves of the songs, laying a funky foundation for the extended disco remixes of the later-'70s. Album cuts of such uptempo masterworks as the Bluenotes' "Bad Luck" and "The Love I Lost"; MFSB's "TSOP" (The [/i][i]Soul Train theme song) and "Love Is the Message"; and the O'Jays' "992 Arguments," "I Love Music" and (best) "For the Love of Money" reached lengths of up to 10-minutes of dance floor ecstasy.

Food for thought...

The extended mixes were done and released in 1977, as updated, disco-length remixes of Philly Classics, from '73 through '75. Rarely, were the original LP cuts more than 4mins+.

Also, in '73 Scepter Records was already releasing promotional remixes of their material, specifically for "Disco" DJs and "Because of Scepter's acceptance of the "Disco Market" long before any other company, it was awarded the Billboard Magazine "1974 Trendsetter Award" for being the innovators in special disco mixes." (Keep in mind, that quote refers to Scepter's work going back, at least, to early 1973. The point in time when the Philly Sound (of the afore mentioned article that opened this thread) was just getting off the ground.

So, at the same time that Gamble and Huff were developing their sound, Mel Cheren, Florence Greeneberg, Pete Castagne, Bo Crane, Marc Paul Simon... and a host of others, were already working within, and catering to, an established "Disco" market. That was equally as active in Philly, as NYC, Miami and Montreal. Albeit, completely underground, and strictly within the clubs.

This begs the question:
Was the Philly Sound instrumental in the developement of Disco? Or was Disco instrumental in the developement of the Philly Sound?

[ashley]

.. hello Stephen .. you may be correct .. I'm always bleating on ( .. to anyone who will listen) about Eddie Kendricks "Girl you need a change of mind" being the first true disco record .. and of course that was from 1972 .. and not a philly recording .. but to give your argument some ballance don't forget "Love train" by the O'Jays, also from 1972, was very popular with dance audiences .. .. While early Scepter recordings like "Make me believe in you" were big club play records, it's the philly sound that became popular world-wide .. making buckets of cash for Gamble & Huff & heavily inflencing the evolution of popular music at that time

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by ashley

.. hello Stephen .. you may be correct .. I'm always bleating on ( .. to anyone who will listen) about Eddie Kendricks "Girl you need a change of mind" being the first true disco record .. and of course that was from 1972 .. and not a philly recording .. but to give your argument some ballance don't forget "Love train" by the O'Jays, also from 1972, was very popular with dance audiences .. .. While early Scepter recordings like "Make me believe in you" were big club play records, it's the philly sound that became popular world-wide .. making buckets of cash for Gamble & Huff & heavily inflencing the evolution of popular music at that time

Yes. It was Philadelphia's approach to dance music making that the world adopted as the true form of disco. There were variations as time went on to the way disco sounded, the types of instruments used, arrangements, etc... But you have to admit that out of all of the regions and studios that pumped out dance music c. '72/'73, it was the philly sound that was such that if you played one of those records 4 years later, it probably didn't sound as dated as Bohannon's Stop & Go or EK's Girl You Need A Change Of Mind.

Disco Funk

[Disco Funk]

I just discovered an awesome early philly PIR dance production - Dick Jensen's self-titled PIR album. I passed this one up for the longest time because I read somewhere that it was kitzchy and cabaret. I don't recall where I read that. Maybe I thought I read it. Either way, I didn't think this record was essential, especially after being disappointed with the Monk Montgomery and Thad Lewis & Mel Jones PIR LPs.

This LP features a lot of great dance tunes. Even though the record lists a 1973 release date, the dance tunes sound like they're from '71 or '72, like the early dance stuff by groups like The Ebonys (Sexy Ways). There's at least one cut, though, that has the tom-tom/I'll Be Around beat. But truth be told, the dance cuts don't sound like the true disco sound that was characterized by other philly productions from that period.

Don't pass this LP up if you have a chance to get it. You truly won't be disappointed!

Disco Funk

[ashley]

.. cheers Disco_Funk, I trust your judgement when it comes to old philly records .. you are obviously the site expert .. I've purchased the Dick Jensen album today from a seller in the U.S. on your recommendation .. it was only 6 dollars, so well worth a risk .. the fact the guy is white (and looks a bit like Englebert Humperdinck) probably explains why this LP escaped the attention of British rare groove & northern/modern soul collectors .. not to mention those wealthy Japanese vinyl fanatics .. all in the buisness of escalating the value of old r&b records ..

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by ashley

.. cheers Disco_Funk, I trust your judgement when it comes to old philly records .. you are obviously the site expert .. I've purchased the Dick Jensen album today from a seller in the U.S. on your recommendation .. it was only 6 dollars, so well worth a risk .. the fact the guy is white (and looks a bit like Englebert Humperdinck) probably explains why this LP escaped the attention of British rare groove & northern/modern soul collectors .. not to mention those wealthy Japanese vinyl fanatics .. all in the buisness of escalating the value of old r&b records ..

If you don't mind those early uptempo Philly numbers, you know, the pre-I'll Be Around groove, then you'll really like these tracks. It was such a great find. I thought I'd uncovered all of the great early 70s Philly tracks on the PIR label, and then wham, this hit me like a mac truck. The guy has a great voice.

Thanks for the compliment. I hope you aren't disappointed!

By the way, there's a compilation that Sony released on LP-only for some reason, called Conquer The World: Lost Soul of PIR (I shortened that). It contains a lot of early 70s rare philly soul that got lost amongst the O'Jays, Harold Melvin, etc.. releases. Tracks that were on the Gamble, North Bay, and TSOP labels. I don't know if there are any audio samples online. I'm hoping they'll put it out onto CD eventually. There's also a lot of Gamble-Huff related material from that time period to put out at least another volume or two.

Disco Funk