Knock Offs - Are They Better?

[FranceJoliFan]

Are songs that come out after ground-breaking hits better? Like when Last Dance came out. And it inspired all the great knock-offs that start slow, then add a disco beat.

Without Last Dance there would be no Come To Me by France Joli. (Or Heart To Break The Heart or Can We Fall In Love Again or Witch Of Love or Touch. France made this technique something of a trademark.) But being an imitation Last Dance doesn't make Come To Me inferior. It uses Last Dance as a starting point, then adds it's own special sound.

So when I hear a song like Souvenirs (which I like) I see it as having paved the way for Take Off by Harlow (which I like better.)

The thing is, Take Off didn't get as much club play. And it came out after that style of disco peaked. So people don't have the same memories of dancing to it like Souvenirs. But if Take Off had been released several years earlier, it might be considered as highly as Souvenirs.

So can anyone think of disco-era songs that imitate others? And exceed the original?

[normvork]

Cerrone's Rock Me was a shameless rip off of Ms. Donna's Bad Girls but I liked the Cerrone record better.

[ol'skinflint]

Originally Posted by FranceJoliFan

Are songs that come out after ground-breaking hits better? Like when Last Dance came out. And it inspired all the great knock-offs that start slow, then add a disco beat.

Without Last Dance there would be no Come To Me by France Joli. (Or Heart To Break The Heart or Can We Fall In Love Again or Witch Of Love or Touch. France made this technique something of a trademark.) But being an imitation Last Dance doesn't make Come To Me inferior. It uses Last Dance as a starting point, then adds it's own special sound.

So when I hear a song like Souvenirs (which I like) I see it as having paved the way for Take Off by Harlow (which I like better.)

The thing is, Take Off didn't get as much club play. And it came out after that style of disco peaked. So people don't have the same memories of dancing to it like Souvenirs. But if Take Off had been released several years earlier, it might be considered as highly as Souvenirs.

So can anyone think of disco-era songs that imitate others? And exceed the original?

without question, Summer's rendition of "Last Dance", with it's ballad intro/disco finish inspired lots of imitators. But I'm not 100% sure it was "groundbreaking", meaning I'm not certain it was the first song (or even the first disco song) to have a ballad intro and then a tempo change. I'll be looking through my collection to find songs that preceeded it, but the title track from Summer's concept album "Once Upon a Time" also has a ballad intro and disco finish, and it was released the year before "Last Dance".

[nrgbeat]

I always thought "Another One Bites The Dust" was a knock off of "Good Times". I liked them both at the time.

[Disco Funk]

Touch Me In The Morning by MFSB has the tempo change, and that was released in '73. It was a remake of the Diana Ross tune, which also had a tempo change, but her song wasn't a disco tune. TLC by MFSB also starts slow, with that jazzy horn section, and then bang!, the disco beat starts. That track was from '75.

Love Hangover by Diana Ross had a tempo change, from slow and funky to fast and funky. From '76.

There were plenty of knock offs during the disco era. I can't really recall anything specific right now. Maybe they'll come to me later. But the Cerrone reference jogged my memory about Love In C Minor, and how George Bussey used the strings hook from that track on his own Disco Extravanganza, to great effect.

Disco Funk

[NickNack]

Originally Posted by FranceJoliFan

The thing is, Take Off didn't get as much club play. And it came out after that style of disco peaked. So people don't have the same memories of dancing to it like Souvenirs. But if Take Off had been released several years earlier, it might be considered as highly as Souvenirs.

Good topic, although I'll disagree with you about the amount of club play Take Off received. Huge during my time inside the booth.

Souvenirs is indeed a classic and I believe Voyage knocked themselves off since its structure copies From East to West. Hills of Katmandu by Tantra used to have people running up to the booth asking me if this was a new one by Voyage.

(more later... )

[FranceJoliFan]

NickNack: I see what you mean about Voyage. Which would bring up a good topic. The idea of an artist having a distinct style. But at what point do they get lazy and just recycle old sounds.

When I first heard A Place Called Tarot it seemed like Tantra re-used tracks from Hills Of Katmandu. Which is fine because I like that sound. But it's also disappointing because you feel like you've already paid for that record.

I think Giorgio Moroder is a good example of someone who is prolific, has a trademark style, yet still creates different sounds for different artists. But he still knocks himself off. I was listening to Melanie from Donna Summer's I'm A Rainbow. And it sounds like several tracks on Moroder's album with Phil Oakey were directly inspired (lifted) from this one song.

But instead of being a knock-off, I see it as a progression. I don't think Flashdance (What A Feeling) would have been the same if Moroder hadn't tried out some of those ideas first on You Can with Madleen Kane. (And yes, two more songs that start as ballads, then go into a dance beat.)

You could also say that Sunset People couldn't exist without I Feel Love coming before it. But what a great sound. And if you're going to rehash something, why doesn't Donna knock out a few more I Feel Love retreads. You don't always have to do something different. Sometimes it's nice to throw your fans a bone, and give them something you know they already like.

[eddie]

I think some artists that were knock-off artists could rival the artists that they imitated. One such example was Vesta Williams who later imitated Chaka Khan's vocal style.

Knock off songs however IMHO are like stolen riffs and are not very cool in my book. Can't think of any that sound better. One terrible knock-off record was Odyssey's "Inside out" which liberally borrowed Slave's guitar licks from "Just a touch of love".

[FranceJoliFan]

It's a tough call. Were Odyssey's guitar licks identical to Slave's? Or just heavily influenced by them? And did Odyssey add something original to the mix?