Van McCoy - A Sub Genre Onto Himself?

[Disco Funk]

In addition to the sound of Philadelphia, I'm a huge Van McCoy fan. I love the distinctive sound of his production - the glockenspiel, the 'rubbing sandpaper', and the latin percussion and rhythm punctuated by Steve Gadd's intricate, syncopated drums. I noticed that in '78, McCoy suddenly dropped that sound for a more generic, commercial sound. Gone was the gritty latin groove for a more metronomic, static beat. He did do a track called 'Disco Samba' that was kind of a Hustle-melody-latin-groove track, but it didn't pack much punch. I think 'Two Points' is his best cut from that last period of his life.

Back to the topic - so, would you guys say that the Van McCoy sound (c. '74 to '77) was really a sub genre onto itself? And were there any exact imitators of the sound? In all my years of collecting disco, I don't recall hearing anything that sounded like a Van McCoy production. There were imitators of The Hustle, like the Eddie Drennon tracks Let's Do The Latin Hustle and Let's Do It Again, but I'm referring more to the syncopated latin feel, rather than the static beat found on The Hustle. Perhaps Steve Gadd's drums, which was never really duplicated by anyone else during that time, that really made the Van McCoy sound so unique...

Disco Funk

[tony98]

I can think of a producer who recorded in that "Van McCoy Style" namely Bert DeCoteaux. If you think Of Linda Lewis "It's In His Kiss" - Sister Sledge "Love Don't Go Through No Changes In Me" and some of his many productions, i reckon they used the same session men.

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by tony98

I can think of a producer who recorded in that "Van McCoy Style" namely Bert DeCoteaux. If you think Of Linda Lewis "It's In His Kiss" - Sister Sledge "Love Don't Go Through No Changes In Me" and some of his many productions, i reckon they used the same session men.

Hmm...I'll have to check those tracks out. Thanks for the recommendations!

Update: I checked those tracks out - they sound like New York and slightly Philly, but more like a Warren Schatz production than Van McCoy. The Sister Sledge album even uses Jimmy Young on drums, who Schatz used a bit; Carlos Martin was the percussionist in the Warren Schatz group The Brothers and he's on the album from which 'In His Kiss' was taken. Not a bad thing - Schatz is another guy who's tracks I've been looking for, so anything that sounds like his work is worth checking out!

Disco Funk

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

Back to the topic - so, would you guys say that the Van McCoy sound (c. '74 to '77) was really a sub genre onto itself? And were there any exact imitators of the sound? In all my years of collecting disco, I don't recall hearing anything that sounded like a Van McCoy production. There were imitators of The Hustle, like the Eddie Drennon tracks Let's Do The Latin Hustle and Let's Do It Again, but I'm referring more to the syncopated latin feel, rather than the static beat found on The Hustle. Perhaps Steve Gadd's drums, which was never really duplicated by anyone else during that time, that really made the Van McCoy sound so unique...

Disco Funk

Yes I'd say Van had his own sub genre going on ....as did KC with his punchy Sunshine sound .... Patrick Cowley's spacey Menergy sound ..... Bobby "O"s Native Love pot banging sound ...there were these distinctive styles ...... by certain producers ...

It occurred to me while listening to Tavares HEAVEN MUST BE MISSING AN ANGEL that it owes a big nod toward that Van McCoy sound Disco Funk ... agree?


*****

[Mario]

Hello All... I'm so glad that DiscoFunk brought up the subject of the legendary Van McCoy! What a major, major contributor to the disco sound was this genius of music! Van McCoy added "CLASS" to music...Something that is missing not only in today's music but moreover within our society. His music could be down-right funky and soulsy (Change With The Times 1975) to something very beautiful and melodic (The Way You Make Me Feel - Melba Moore). I still can hear the very first opening notes of: Walk Away From Love-David Ruffin...Wow, that sound made it simply too hard to keep still! Other David Ruffin songs like: Everything Is Coming Up Love, Heavy Love, and David's Beautiful ballad: Satute Of A Fool carry that inimitable Van McCoy "touch." But perhaps Van McCoys most underrated and most beautiful productions came through his group: Faith, Hope, & Charity. Their music was PURE Van McCoy! (I still hold on to their vinyl with dear life, as it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to find their stuff on CD.) If Van McCoy were still with us today, imagine the impact he'd make on today's dance music? I have a feeling we'd have something just a little different than what we have today. Thanks & Take Care...And many, many thanks to DiscoFunk for bringing this subject up. ~ Mario

[Disco Funk]

It occurred to me while listening to Tavares HEAVEN MUST BE MISSING AN ANGEL that it owes a big nod toward that Van McCoy sound Disco Funk ... agree?

That's a tough call, remicks. The choice of instrumentation, especially the bells/xylophone playing the hook, is typical of Van McCoy's style. But I think that's where the comparison ends. James Gadson's tight hi-hat playing, which is heard on a lot of those mid-70s Motown albums, and most famously on Gloria Gaynor's I Will Survive doesn't have that latin feel like Steve Gadd's playing on the Van McCoy stuff. Not enough tom-tom playing on Angel.

Originally Posted by Mario

Hello All... I'm so glad that DiscoFunk brought up the subject of the legendary Van McCoy! What a major, major contributor to the disco sound was this genius of music! Van McCoy added "CLASS" to music...Something that is missing not only in today's music but moreover within our society. His music could be down-right funky and soulsy (Change With The Times 1975) to something very beautiful and melodic (The Way You Make Me Feel - Melba Moore). I still can hear the very first opening notes of: Walk Away From Love-David Ruffin...Wow, that sound made it simply too hard to keep still! Other David Ruffin songs like: Everything Is Coming Up Love, Heavy Love, and David's Beautiful ballad: Satute Of A Fool carry that inimitable Van McCoy "touch." But perhaps Van McCoys most underrated and most beautiful productions came through his group: Faith, Hope, & Charity. Their music was PURE Van McCoy! (I still hold on to their vinyl with dear life, as it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to find their stuff on CD.)

The track 'To Each His Own' was included on an RCA dance compilation released in '88 on CD, but that's about it. I haven't seen any of their other stuff on CD.

In addition to David Ruffin's stuff, Disco Baby was put on CD, and a number of Stylistics albums with Van McCoy produced tracks ('Thank You Baby'; 'Fabulous'). There have also been best of CDs with Van McCoy produced tracks for Melba Moore and The Choice Four. I think the latter's best of CD was alright, but I think it would have been better if it included more cuts from their last album On Top of A Clear. Also, the awesome 'Am I Cold Am I Hot' by Bill Harris was on some compilation CD released in the late 80s; and Unidisc has put out a couple of Anacostia albums, the first of which has a couple of Van McCoy produced tracks. The other cuts on those albums are produced by Charles Kipps and don't sound so great.

If Van McCoy were still with us today, imagine the impact he'd make on today's dance music? I have a feeling we'd have something just a little different than what we have today. Thanks & Take Care...And many, many thanks to DiscoFunk for bringing this subject up. ~ Mario

Cheers. I don't know if Van would still be making dance music. Perhaps he'd do more soundtrack music, since that seemed to be the trend for him in the late 70s.

Disco Funk

[Mario]

Hello Again... I couldn't help but jump right back into the subject of Van McCoy...I was remembering that FANTASTIC song that Gladys Knight and The Pips put out around 1977: "Baby, Don't Change Your Mind." What a greaaat song!!!! It is absolutely Van McCoy at his very, very best...Couldn't get any better than that! It's a shame that song didn't get more air play than it did...If I remember correctly, it didn't even crack into the Top 40~Super UNDERRATED! Alright, Take Care, Mario

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by Mario

Hello Again... I couldn't help but jump right back into the subject of Van McCoy...I was remembering that FANTASTIC song that Gladys Knight and The Pips put out around 1977: "Baby, Don't Change Your Mind." What a greaaat song!!!! It is absolutely Van McCoy at his very, very best...Couldn't get any better than that! It's a shame that song didn't get more air play than it did...If I remember correctly, it didn't even crack into the Top 40~Super UNDERRATED! Alright, Take Care, Mario

Was that cut the same one that he produced for the Stylistics the year before? I know he liked to shop around some of his songs, so you'll see the same song performed by different artists he produced, kind of like how Motown used to do that back in the 60s. The Stylistics track was on the Fabulous record:

Fabulous

Disco Funk

[DISCODISK]

Van McCoy fans theres a great 9 page article on vans work in the latest issue of theres that beat magazine just out [issue 2]
check out the promo film to promote the mag,but first 'read the disclaimer'

NO DISCO RECORDS,RECORD SCANS WERE TAKEN BY ANYONE ON THE NORTHERN SOUL SCENE FOR USE IN THIS FILM/MAG,THEY ARE ALL BONA FIDE U.S ORIGINAL COPIES THAT HAVE NEVER LEFT THE COUNTRY

enjoy [details how to buy in the film]

YouTube - There's That Beat! Northern Soul-Van McCoy

[tony98]

The first Van McCoy production i bought was Faith,Hope & Charity "So Much Love" On U.K. Maxwell i've also picked up some of the 60's stuff he did Chris Bartley. Chris was some talent,he is similar to Eddie Holman.

[Disco Funk]

I was browsing youtube and discovered this little documentary made around 76 in the Baltimore/Washington DC area. The most interesting part of this, outside seeing discos pre-SNF, is the interview with Van McCoy (he appears a couple of times). RIP Van McCoy.

Discos 1976


Disco Funk

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

I was browsing youtube and discovered this little documentary made around 76 in the Baltimore/Washington DC area. The most interesting part of this, outside seeing discos pre-SNF, is the interview with Van McCoy (he appears a couple of times). RIP Van McCoy.

Discos 1976


Disco Funk

Nice short trip down memory lane, this is a time capsule, I wish the guy would post the rest of it, funny how they even found a Cuban in 1976 DC doing the 'Hustle'

That Blondie at the end of the 'Bumper' club bit was having lots of fun, reminds me of the way it was...many women used to get lost in the music and dancing..

Like McCoy said, by the time He wrote the song, Latins were doing the Hustle already for a while, Like He said, this was a touch dance that actually borrowed steps from the past, but mainly from Latin Salsa dancing.

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by Disco Funk

outside seeing discos pre-SNF,
Disco Funk

Listen to how the announcer states "Discos were the artifact of the first half of the 70's , but for the Nation, not as well known as Macdonalds and Exxon."

Discos were the best little secret in America until SNF ruined it all.

[crafty]

Originally Posted by Mario

Hello Again... I couldn't help but jump right back into the subject of Van McCoy...I was remembering that FANTASTIC song that Gladys Knight and The Pips put out around 1977: "Baby, Don't Change Your Mind." What a greaaat song!!!! It is absolutely Van McCoy at his very, very best...Couldn't get any better than that! It's a shame that song didn't get more air play than it did...If I remember correctly, it didn't even crack into the Top 40~Super UNDERRATED! Alright, Take Care, Mario

It's a great track for sure. Just listened to it in the car. I didn't realise Van wrote it. Very Philly in approach.

Ed

[SandraDee]

Baby Don't Change Your Mind was a huge pop hit in the UK for Gladys Knight & the Pips; I'm sure it made the top 10. Then they did it the following year again with Come Back & Finish What You Started; that was a Van McCoy production too wasn't it?