early early disco

[Ellie]

I made a comment recently... "disco came out of Bronx social clubs and was basically a mix of latin and soul music" [I meant it was play in underground illegal neighborhood clubs first - then made its way to Manhattan] (I'm from Brooklyn by the way)
comments? can anyone help validate this for me?

[Bernie]

You may want to read an interview I did with famed remixer John Morales who was from the Bronx.
http://www.discomusic.com/people-more/4680_0_11_0_C/

[eddie]

The rawer and really off the wall uptempo funk/soul/disco like Fatback Band, Bohannon, Jimmy Caster, Kool and the Gang all really hit big in NY first.

The more polished disco came from Philly and is rooted more in Chicago soul and northern soul. It was less funky, more formula driven, and hence received greater airplay. The latin influence was more of a NY element with groups like Brass Construction, Kool and the gang, ect. but was definitely present on Vince Montana's Salsoul label but less strident on Philly International.

I just turned 30 and was not there but have studied where the music came from and have interacted with many who were there. Disco music was rooted in the Black community before it branched out in 1975.

[Mixmachine]

Originally Posted by eddie

Vince Montana's Salsoul label but less strident on Philly International.

Before Vince Montana moved to Salsoul, he was part of the Philly International.

From the very begining Club music played in American clubs (Cities like NYC, NJ, Miamil) in the 70's, - also known as Discotheques- were full of Latin Sounds and Afro rhythms, the evidence is in the vinyl left behind (used on Dance floors) not on some of the revisionists books you read today, some of the first massive hits were clearly latin influenced, hits like "Woman/Wild Safari" by Barrabas (72), "Corazon" Carlole King ('73) and LTG Express, "Black skin blue eyes boys" the equals (71) El Bimbo and so many more.

when it comes to dancing very few can compete with the Latin culture, and from the beginning NYC/Miami etc were full of dancers that easily migrated between the booming Salsa Clubs of the late 60's and early 70's into the emerging Discos. By the time Van McCoy noticed the "Hustle" in NYC it was already old news to many of us. and by the time John Travolta danced the "Bus Stop " in the movie, this dance was already tired.

I was trying to put together a Latin Influenced club playlist , but it takes to much time to research all this. :???: maybe some day.:???:

[remicks]

Originally Posted by Mixmachine

I was trying to put together a Latin Influenced club playlist , but it takes to much time to research all this. :???: maybe some day.:???:

I HOPE YOU DO !!!! and sooner than later ..... 8)8)8)


*****

[Ellie]

I made a statment recently "early disco in NY was promoted out of illegal social clubs in the Bronx, and was basically the combination of soul and latin music"
and someone jumped down my throat
what do you all think? Of course, I'm looking for a lot of agreement, and no dissent, but truthfully, what do you think? thanks

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by eddie

The more polished disco came from Philly and is rooted more in Chicago soul and northern soul. It was less funky, more formula driven, and hence received greater airplay.

I take great offense to this! :)

Seriously, Philly disco was not formulaic. It was still riff driven, like the NY and Southern disco music, but it incorporated more jazzy chords. The songs were much more fleshed out with meaningful lyrics beyond the usual 'let's party' or 'let's make out' songs that a lot of dance songs tended to feature. This was due to a larger pool of songwriters and musicians on the Philly scene who worked together on songs, as opposed to groups like Fatback and Jimmy Castor who worked on their own. I will have to admit that the music was probably more 'ear-friendly' to those not into soul or R&B than the NY or Southern US tracks, but I think a lot of the airplay just had to do with Philly International product being distributed and marketed better than those other groups.

The latin influence was more of a NY element with groups like Brass Construction, Kool and the gang, ect. but was definitely present on Vince Montana's Salsoul label but less strident on Philly International.

From what I've read, Vince moved to Salsoul from Philly (the Cayre brothers were the actual owners of Salsoul) because he felt constrained by Gamble & Huff. If you listen to the Salsoul stuff, it's grittier and more daring, but still has that Philly jazz groove going. Incidentally, Vince wasn't just stuck on those two labels. He also produced stuff on the side like The Modulations 'It's Rough Out Here' album and 45s for artists on various other labels like RCA, all incorporating the same Philly musicians.

I just turned 30 and was not there but have studied where the music came from and have interacted with many who were there. Disco music was rooted in the Black community before it branched out in 1975.

Was it just the black community? Or was it the black, latin and gay communities. I think it was just the white mainstream who were out of the loop because they were still listening to Jim Croce and The Carpenters (I know I'm exaggerating).

Disco Funk

[eddie]

Hey Discofunk:

We're on the same page. What I meant by "formula driven" was based around a verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus type structure of PIR artists exclusively. The themes were usually also about love, community, and unity without themes that were risque'. PIR is actually my favorite label and I feel that their Black radio based formula worked well. It allowed for creativity and definitely was not cookie-cutter by any means. The guitar riffs and solos were rooted in a combination between Bacharach soul, big band, and that NY style Kool and the Gang funk.

Salsoul on the other hand had looser structure, longer intros, and featured blatantly different remixes on Instant funk's "I got my mind made up", First Choice's "Love Thang" and Skyy's "Show me the way". PIR typically created one album version marketed directly for radio and deviated rarely.

Of the secondary (non Top 30 pop artists), I strongly believe there's a genre and colorline in music that only the real fans seek out. When I was growing up in the 1980's, most White people who liked pop had no clue who Freddie Jackson was.

[Disco Funk]

Originally Posted by eddie

Salsoul on the other hand had looser structure, longer intros, and featured blatantly different remixes on Instant funk's "I got my mind made up", First Choice's "Love Thang" and Skyy's "Show me the way". PIR typically created one album version marketed directly for radio and deviated rarely.

That is one source of annoyance for me. PIR was so slow to jump on the 12" remix bandwagon. By the time they started doing it, the disco era was almost over. I think the first remix projects were the Philadelphia Classics and Disco Champs (by the Trammps) LPs. For the longest time I avoided buying PIR 12"s because I figured they just had the LP mixes. But I noticed a year or so ago that around '78, the 12" versions were remixed. Tracks like 'Glad You Could Make It' by Archie Bell & The Drells, 'Dance With Me Tonight' and 'Use Ta Be My Guy' by MFSB, etc... are all remixed versions from the LPs. I wish I had noticed this earlier, especially since I was aware of the differences between the 12" mix and LP mix of 'Ain't No Stoppin Us Now' by McFadden & Whitehead.

Of the secondary (non Top 30 pop artists), I strongly believe there's a genre and colorline in music that only the real fans seek out. When I was growing up in the 1980's, most White people who liked pop had no clue who Freddie Jackson was.

I think its also a case of true music fan versus casual music fan. A true fan of music will seek out various types of music and will probably learn about the Freddie Jacksons instead of just the Top 40 pop stuff. Pop radio is really for 'lazy' music listeners, which is why there is so much push to get your music into the mainstream if you want to make the real money. It's the equivalent of people just watching CNN or the late night news as opposed to seeking out various independent news or media papers to get a balanced look at the world (sorry - I don't want to get into a media and politics discussion :).

Disco Funk

[Ellie]

thank you all for your sincere replies
have a great weekend

[sfbeary]

hello elle and others,

if you're interested in hearing early proto-disco tracks like "woman," "wild safari," "black skin blue eyed boys," "corazon," "el bimbo," and other cuts that created prototypes for what followed, you can hear them mixed in with prime-era disco and early '80s keepers-of-the-flame at the 24/7 internet disco radio station i program and host, RadioioDisco.

check it out at http://www.radioio.com/radioiodisco.php

thanks,
barry walters