Why Do The English Have Better Taste Than Americans?

[markydefad]

I'm listening to Sarah Cracknell's CD called "Lipslide" and I'm reminded once again, how much the English still seem to appreciate and produce classic pop and dance music so much more than Americans.



Last week we were posting about Swing Out Sister, Everything But The Girl, Basia, Lisa Stansfield, Brand New Heavies, Incognito, etc. and I forgot to mention another group I enjoyed-- Saint Etienne (Cracknell is the lead singer), and it occurred to me that all this music came from England. Are there any American groups that have the feel for classic pop/r&b that these English acts capture so well? Is there still a nostalgia and appreciation for the likes of Dusty Springfield, Dionne Warwick & all that great Bacharach/David or The Supremes and all that great Holland/Dozier/Holland or The Three Degrees and all that great Gamble/Huff in England that makes newer groups want to emulate that music of the past? There sure is in the music coming or maybe, I should say, that came out of England into the 1990's.



Now very little of this music made much of a splash in the U.S, so consequently as Paulo said, Swing Out Sister's music is now released in Japan only! What's wrong with the rest of the world?



Does the English pop chart consist mainly of hiphop/gangsta rap crap like the U.S. charts do? I'd be curious to know if England has better taste, more eclectic taste, or just a softspot in their hearts for classic pop?



Would appreciate your input.







_________________

Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2001-12-03 17:07 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2001-12-03 17:09 ]</font>

[paul]

Great topic Markey. I'm curious as well if the rest of the world, Britain and Italy in particular have psuedo tough guy attitudes in the primarily male dominated music today. Even some of the female artist that perform rap/hip-hop have this kind of edge. I noticed this gradual musical change in the mid eighties. I'm not sure but even the movies have taken on too much of this sort of thing. I have always felt the Europeans have a broader appreciation for various styles of music from women, men and everyone in between. I could be way off base though.

[markydefad]

Hmmm... so Paul are you saying that I'm pining for the return of a more female-oriented music? You know maybe you're right. I didn't think of it when I was posting, but maybe that is "girlie" music. But ya know I liked the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Doors, Kinks, Who, etc. and they rocked pretty hard. I like Lenny Kravitz, Collective Soul, Sugar Ray, Smash Mouth, New Radicals, Train, U2 and a lot of other contemporary rock artists/groups.



I guess Disco was considered on the feminine side of pop/r&b, hence all the rage from the testosterone fueled males that it was threatening, right?

[paul]

Well. I don't know if disco was on the feminine side, not there's anything wrong with that

I like to think of disco as all inclusive, sex, race, nationallity, age, etc didn't matter.

I don't know exactly what it is but try as I may, I find it difficult today to find a nice groove that a Chaka Khan, Teena Marie or Emotions for example are known for. I don't think I had to work that hard at it before.

[markydefad]

Doesn't the female population of the U.S. buy music anymore? Or do they just listen to whiny boybands and pouty teenage sluts? What happens what they get older and want something more sophisticated than Britney?



I'm just curious why the U.S. pop charts are so dominated by hiphop/rap. It seems that in Europe female pop gets more exposure, i.e. the recent deluge of posts about Kylie Minogue, who hasn't seen U.S. chart action since 1989.



Another good example would be Cher's "Believe" which topped the charts in many countries of the world before it was even played on U.S. radio. I remember Michael Paoletta in his Billboard Dance column saying he hoped that Cher's single wasn't gonna be bypassed by U.S. radio, in their year-end issue. Amazingly, Cher started doing (lipsynching) spots on the American Music Awards and the late shows and all of a sudden, the song hit radio and was a smash. And this from an over-50 female who first charted in 1965!



Maybe the lesson from this is "If you play it, they will buy it". But truthfully there hasn't been much of that type of dance music to crossover on the U.S. charts since, so I guess the lesson wasn't learned?



_________________

Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2001-12-03 19:34 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2001-12-03 20:05 ]</font>

[Disco77]

I'm not sure whether it isn't a question of exposure rather than taste. Europeans, in general, are more open to all kinds of music, whether it be edgy and experimental or trivial and poppy. When was the last time that an opera aria was on the top 40 in North America? Never.

Perhaps record executives, most coming from corporate law or financial backgrounds, can only see the business side of music and are unwilling on exposing the american public to something untried and untrue. First week sales may not be phenomenal.

Hence the droning sameness of everything we hear on the radio and the interminable lapse of time between anything remotely groundbreaking.

[NickNack]

Good topic, Mark. I would like to hear from some of our 'guys and gals' in England. What is on the charts over there and how it compares here.



I was wondering why I haven't seen a Swing Out Sister cd since their 1997 release. This group and the other six you mention deserve better. Swing Out Sister was happening long before Todd Terry came into the mix but, as you say, no radio play = no glory.

[Paulo]

Hello everybody:



Concerning Swing Out Sister, they haven't released anything in Britain or USA since their SHAPES AND PATTERNS album, but they keep on recording and releasing albums (only in japan). Since the one above, they released 2 more: FILTH AND DREAMS and this year's SOMEWHERE DEEP IN THE NIGHT.



The music is very sophisticated, jazzy with strings and horn arrangements attached to Andy Connell's keyboards. Very beautiful albums, but not predictable pop music. Maybe this explains why they vanished from the public eye.



A lot of 80's groups were totally forgotten by the 90's generation. What a shame, because they were superior to 90's artists in my opinion.



Bye

Paulo

[markydefad]

Hmmm...well, Paulo, I guess the Brits don't appreciate Swing Out Sister anymore, either. Do I have to amend the title of the post to "Why Do The Japanese Have Better Taste Than Brits & Americans"?



At least, the artists themselves demonstrate a love for classic pop/r&b mixed with a jazzy vibe. I'd be curious to hear the two latest Swing Out Sister cds. Are they outrageously expensive as Japanese imports? Sometimes that gets as high as $30.00 per CD...I'll have to check them out.



We do need input from those members who live in the U.K.-- Paging move2this & phyllis hyman and others who live in the U.K....R.S.V.P.



_________________

Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2001-12-04 18:44 ]</font>

[HustleBaby]

I remember Swing Out Sister. The only radio stations that used to play them were the jazz

stations and Lite F.M every once in awhile.



Unfortunately record producers have bombarded us with hip hop/rap, boy bands and

bubblegum manufactured sex symbols(Britney).

The type of music we have today have no soul,

originality or style. I have noticed that

europeans are definitely open-minded to all

types of music. Especially when disco was attacked and exiled from the USA. That is the reason why I don't watch VH1 or MTV! It's

been created for the "ME" generation(teeny

boppers) that won't appreciate "good music"!

Maybe foreigners do have better taste than americans.



DELIGHTFUL!!

[littlemartin]

I wouldn't necessarily say better taste but I can think of a dozen reasons right away as to why taste is different there. One of the biggest is CD vs. vinyl. I'm from England and go back regularly but live in the U.S. and was shocked to see how easily Americans abandoned their turntables and record collections to switch to CD's (although I have done very well by that abandonement ty very much). While most everyone in Britain has a CD player, I think it's uncommon for people to get rid of their turntables. CD's might be more popular but they still have turntables and record collections. A kid that comes across a Supremes LP for a buck might well buy it and bring it home to play. That is just NOT an option for the majority of US households.

[HustleBaby]

I meant a better appreciation of music and

arts. Plus it also seems like europeans is

not so quick to snob a performer that americans feel is "over the hill". Someone mentioned Cher for an example (her music was supposed to have been played in Europe first. Tina Turner is another example of a performer who did well in Europe without having to fit in a certain clique or look.



DELIGHTFUL!!!

[markydefad]

On 2001-12-06 20:01, littlemartin wrote:

I wouldn't necessarily say better taste but I can think of a dozen reasons right away as to why taste is different there. One of the biggest is CD vs. vinyl. I'm from England and go back regularly but live in the U.S. and was shocked to see how easily Americans abandoned their turntables and record collections to switch to CD's (although I have done very well by that abandonement ty very much). While most everyone in Britain has a CD player, I think it's uncommon for people to get rid of their turntables. CD's might be more popular but they still have turntables and record collections. A kid that comes across a Supremes LP for a buck might well buy it and bring it home to play. That is just NOT an option for the majority of US households.

--------------------------------------------



Finally, a post from someone who actually lived in England! The point about about Brits keeping their turntables is interesting--I could never understand why some of my friends got rid of their turntables and sold their vinyl as soon as CD's hit the market.



Nevertheless, what about all those UK imports we buy over here in the U.S. that rerelease old dance & soul classics that we are unable to buy as domestic pressings? There is some kind of special appreciation for classic stuff over there that transcends U.S. interest, at least in the repackaging and marketing of classic dance & r&b product.



When I go to Tower to look at the import stuff, I can always find goodies from the U.K. that aren't available as domestic product and often they're very reasonably priced, too. The Japanese are also responsible for lots of reissues, but their stuff is EXPENSIVE. I checked CD Now for the live Swing Out Sister CD and they had a list price of $41.49 and a sale price of $35.99 for a 10 song CD!!!



_________________

Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2001-12-07 12:53 ]</font>

[markydefad]

And, one more thing...Delightful is dead on with her assertion that beloved performers in the UK are not discarded to the trash heap as quickly as in the U.S. Once your hit-making days are done here it's off to Vegas, Atlantic City, or worse some caravan of oldies performers working state fairs or Amway conventions.



Someone on Napster told me that Kelly Marie and Hazell Dean and, was it Tina Charles (?) still perform in the UK (although it may be at less prestigious venues--I don't think they have county fairs there, do they?)

[Outsider]

I may be a little late with this one by now, but I also remember Swing Out Sister. I remember their song "Breakout" and another one I think is called "Twilight World" (or something like that). It's nice to know they're still making music.



Also, how popular are hard rock bands such as Korn and Slipknot in England? How about other newer rock bands such as Staind? I'm curious to know.