Why Do The English Have Better Taste Than Americans?

[MiaBocca]

I'm from the UK, so I'll try to give you a run down of what's happening at the mo'.



The British music scene seems in a state at the moment if you ask me, they've had 70's, 80's and 90's revivals in music all in the past 2 years, and it's a little mish-mashed.



Most pop bands are vocodering themselves into oblivion. It seems were just coming OUT of a slew of trashy bubble-gum pop acts, with only the successful ones being left.



Acts like Steps (5 piece boy/girl group prodcued by Pete Waterman of SAW), S Club 7 (Steps-lite), and a couple of Boy Bands.



There's the UK Garage scene which is kinda like US Garage mixed with Drum & Bass, but that will last as long as Drum & Bass and Jungle I imagine, and the acts that topped the charts a year ago are already losing ground.



Dance music is also a little odd, too many styles around: UK Garage, Trance (still!) and Hard House are all popular.



With concern to American music, it's a mixed bag - Britney is tops, NSync are virtually unknown.



Weatus, Eminem, Slipknot et all are popular with the kids, they seem to be filling the rebellious music phase that 14/15 year olds go through nicely.



The older kids/young adults are still in that old Britpop phase with Coldplay, Radio Head and Travis et all being popular.



A very mixed bag! And like I said, there's still shades of the 70's revival from a while back, but that's all but turned into the 80's revival with vocoders and daft punk vocals in every pop song around.



There's the early 90's revival too, with Rave and House anthems being re-released left, right and center - and also a slew of compilation albums featuring said anthems.



To me (and this is my opinion), music seems to be desperately trying to find something new to call's it's own for this era.



We're in a new millenium, and I guess the collective conscience has been expecting so much from the future that now it's here, it's a bit of an anti-climax.



The younger generation today don't seem to have any music or sub-cultures that are truly original, and in the search for something to define this era they seem to be raping and pilaging the past 30 years in hope that they can mix something up and call it their own.



LOL A little deep there, but that's what I see from the UK music charts / scene.

[kelvy]

On 2001-12-09 07:09, MiaBocca wrote:

To me (and this is my opinion), music seems to be desperately trying to find something new to call's it's own for this era.



We're in a new millenium, and I guess the collective conscience has been expecting so much from the future that now it's here, it's a bit of an anti-climax.



The younger generation today don't seem to have any music or sub-cultures that are truly original, and in the search for something to define this era they seem to be raping and pilaging the past 30 years in hope that they can mix something up and call it their own.



LOL A little deep there, but that's what I see from the UK music charts / scene.

so true what you've stated in terms of the desperation to create a unique music genre for this new millenium. it's still kind of early to tell what direction this decade will turn in terms of music (specifically mass-marketed music). to me, the musical direction of a decade usually does not reveal itself until mid-decade. By 2004-2005, i think we will get a relatively decent idea of what is going on pop music wise.



and the mishmashing of styles youth is undertaking is mad rampant! not just music but fashion. it's the end of 2001 and already name-belt-buckles and studded belts are making a comeback from the 80s...pretty soon, i would not be surprised if we'll start taking inspiration from the late 90s, which is hardly inspiring to begin with.



as all of you may well know, stateside pop music is in a stage of stagnancy, fueled by an economy in recession. The rap bubble gets even huger and huger(a trend going back a decade ago) with more of the same "bling-bling, baller" lyrics. as an aside, there's still some of that god-awful "rap-metal" hybrid to the likes of limp biskit, & the poppy boybands still reign huge (not surprising, since there have been a recent population upsurge of teenagers not seen in many years). r&b (the pop variation) is still megapopular as ever, but the more popular it gets, the crappier it gets; unless you're looking at acts such as Maxwell and the like. too much "baby mamma drama" lyrics.



one also has to consider that in the states, most radio stations are owned by just a few conglomerates which usually revolve around the same limited amount of songs (which are mostly provided in 'payola' form. it is legal since no money is usually exchanged between the record company representative and the station managers. the 'payola' comes through via gifts such as gift certificates and new vans for the radio station...therefore, most pop music is not really what the public deems popular but actually determined by how much the record company is willing to dish out to get their record played).



it's no wonder that there is so much stagnancy. this generation needs a sesmic musical revolution; one of the magnitude like the beatles or the early disco years....we have not had a good one in ages!



let's keep this going...



get back at me,



kelvy

[PhyllisHyman]

Just to add my tuppence worth to this. MiaBocca didn't mention the huge success here of the Popstars/PopIdols programmes. Hear'say, the first winners, had huge success earlier in the year but already their star is waning. Their second album has debuted this week at No. 20 which is very poor considering the first one went in at 1 and their 1st single off it went in at 4 with sales of around 50k-ish. Considering their very 1st single had first week sales of 550k this is not a good sign (for them!).

Dance (as in house) is not as strong as it was but Flawless, Starlight and Rapture have been huge hits both in sales and at radio and has led to yet another genre of dance - FM House (where do they get these terms?). Last week a Russian trance track went in at 3. However some of the tracks that were huge in Ibiza and were expected to do well here underperformed. I think there are two reasons for this. One is the success of compilations here and secondly I think radio (and especially BBC Radio 1) is playing tracks too far ahead of release. By the time they come out people are bored and have moved on. The other thing is (and I think someone here said it) is that people don't want to hear tracks on the radio that they've heard out at a club. I think it loses it's coolness when you get six year olds who know all the words!

I don't think we have better taste (bob the builder and the tweenies had a huge hits this year -don't ask)but we are subject to more influence from abroad and being a smaller country means it's easier to get a buzz going about something new.

And lastly , for me, one of the biggest reasons for the diversity of music here is the use of drugs and E in particular. People both straight and gay have been taking it en masse for almost 15 years now. They've danced to Garage, Acid house, Hard House, Tech House and all the rest of it. Now the older crowd are getting in to more downtempo music hence the popularity of chill out albums which is opening up the boundaries for them about what is "dance". I actually think the next major movement in dance is going to come from the States as more kids do E and get into dance. And if Eminem is singing the praises of Purple Pills, sorry that should be Purple Hills, then who knows what'll happen.

Finally 2 recommendations: Royskopp and Playgroup. Oh! and Goldfrapp, Kinobe & Zero 7

[Outsider]

Is Oasis still huge in England? I personally can't stand them, but I used to read that they were the biggest band in England since the Beatles. Was that true, or was that a major exaggeration? They were only marginally successful here in America.

[MiaBocca]

Oasis haven't really released anything in ages, and are a bit old hat now.



But I think they've got something lined up for next year, and due to their constant media attention in the tabloids and magazines (baby's, girlfriends etc) they are bound to make an impression again.



I imagine we'll see a mid-nineties revival starting when they release their album LOL



Retro is gonna catch up to us soon, they what will they do! LOL



About Popstars/Popidol: HearSay did really well at first, but as you have said they are definately on the way out.



I think we are seeing how long such bands can last in that environment of huge media campaign, 6 months advertising and build up for the single/album, with the TV Series.



But what they have done is shorten the life of an all ready short-lived music form.



Pop bands stay around for abour 3/4 years, and by pumping them full-on with the TV shows, they shortened it to about 1 year/ 18 months.



For me personally I can't help but think that the record companies are putting money into pop because they know it will get them money now, but they aren't looking at the industry in the longer term.



If a pop band doesn't perform after the first 2/3 singles they are history and the album doesn't get released.



So these groups have 2/3 singles to reach a mass audience and connect. In the past, I think artists were given 2/3 ALBUMS to do that!



Each week you see these pop muppets miming to shit songs, getting to No.1 - whilst real good groups - such as ones mentioned here, that I personally LOVE - like Brand New Heavies, Incognito, Saint Etienne, they are all virtually unknown and buried except for 1 or 2 tracks.



I think by always looking for the next biggest thing, they are missing out on what they already have.

[PhyllisHyman]

Totally agree with you about Incognito. Their new album is fantastic but hasn't done very well which is a real shame.

[markydefad]

Wow, what a deluge of info came in over the weekend! Unfortunately, I guess the bottom line of the posts is that the state of music in the UK is similar to sorry state it is in the US.



I guess my barometer for interesting groups is a decade behind the times. Ah well, at least some English groups attempted a jazzy soul revival; I can't think of any American groups who did. Since soul music went to the "street" for it's inspiration, the predominate infuence is Compton not the Brill Building. Therefore, we get those clever rhymes that must make the ghosts of Cole Porter& Lorenz Hart,and the still-living legend Stephen Sondheim , et.al, envious of the rhymin'& sales skills of the gangsta thugs. "I shop at Old Navy/ my ho's hair be wavy/ my moms make good gravy" (ah, the poetry of the streets.....)



_________________

Make My Feet Wanna Dance!

Markydefad



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2001-12-10 17:25 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: markydefad on 2001-12-10 20:14 ]</font>

[originalbigm]

I agree that music on both sides of the Atlantic is in a sad state of affairs.Over here in North America,I agree with someone's earlier observation that it is dictated by greedy Music executives who simply want to line there pockets via the latest hottest act which seem to appear on a daily basis.One hot act spawns dozens of copycats all trying the same formula.We are deluged with one or two hit wonders.Record the song, chart it, sell it,milk it and move on.Creativity and artistry have been lost.I certainly believe Technology has stripped music of it's lushness and soul.It's sterile.

[Move2This]

As far as I'm concerned any interest in what's popular and what's not evaporated at least 10 years ago. I thought the only people who bought singles and followed the charts now were 10 year old girls .....



Part of this, of course, is simply the increasing cynicism that comes with age, but my general impression of most popular music around in the UK since the mid 90s is either that it is uninspired and uninteresting, or downright unpleasant.



What now passes as "soul" seems to be bland stuff sung by scantily clad girl groups who have nothing but their lack of clothing to recommend them. Hip hop and rap might as well be from another planet as far as I'm concerned, and I'm sure it might be a lot of fun making hard house and techno tracks, but is the result really that interesting? A lot of people say "ah, yes, but you've got to be on E to appreciate them" ... but isn't that the same as saying they're a bit crap if you're not on drugs??



I tend to appreciate music more in retrospect than in the present, however. This is how I got interested in disco and HiNRG in the first place, so maybe I'll be singing the praises of more recent stuff in years to come!

[Bernie]

On 2001-12-11 05:26, Move2This wrote:

I tend to appreciate music more in retrospect than in the present, however. This is how I got interested in disco and HiNRG in the first place, so maybe I'll be singing the praises of more recent stuff in years to come!

This is a trait of mine as well. I usually don't appreciate a certain style of music until later. I hate to admit that many times it is out of sheer ignorance I can still remember when I used to say that dance rock/new wave sucked. Of course, I love it.

[Outsider]

I've already admitted to liking many newer rock bands (Korn and Slipknot are among my favorites) and such pop acts as the Spice Girls and Britney Spears, but overall I'm somewhat out of touch with what music is currently popular and it doesn't both me one bit. When I go into a record store, I see lots of albums from bands that I've never heard of or at least never heard (but know the names of), and many of them are probably very popular right now. I don't listen to the radio, I have no access to MTV (and I wouldn't watch it if I did), and I don't read Billboard magazine (so I have no idea who is topping the charts). My only exposure to new music is from listening stations at record stores and (more recently but not anymore) Napster (these two sources are how I discovered most of my newer favorites, including Britney). For me the bottom line is whether a song sounds good to me or not, and that's all I care about when it comes to music. The rest is meaningless.

[Outsider]

Here's another source for me hearing new music: "Saturday Night Live" (seriously). And then there's the music articles I read in the newspaper. But for the most part, I mainly discover new music from the two sources I mentioned in my previous message..

[fellow]

I always felt that britain had a better overall talent for the types of music that moved me. When I lived in Jersey there was a few radio stations that had a good dance variety with little and no rap. Here in Vegas with the exception of a new jazz station and public owned station that has salsa and brazilian jazz on weekend mornings I feel basically screwed. I am bombarded by the stupid rap music on the radio and on the Mtvs-worse,my 16 and 10 yrs olds love it- I guess that I am constantly looking for music to move me. More often I look to the past- Swing out sister, shakatak, level42, incognito, are/were fantastic.

[markydefad]

Fellow,



My sentiments exactly! I guess since the early 1980's, I've loved that combination of jazzy/soul that was coming out of England--Shakatak, Level 42, all the others we've mentioned, and later, M People, etc. I somehow thought those groups still had a following in England, but from the posts of those who live there, I guess it ain't so. So sad that we have to live in the past--but the new stuff just doesn't cut it for me. :sad:

[kelvy]

here's my observation. recently, i went into a used vinyl sale and found a few used English compilations. and i must say that the English compilations tend to "dig in the crates" deeper than their American counterparts even though ironically most of the music is stateside. while most American compilations releases find themselves with the same tired "jammin oldies" cuts; here are a listing of compilations with a smattering of the songs featured:



Classic Rare Groove Vol 1 (Mastercuts/1993):



Turned On To You -- Eighties Ladies

Why I Came To California -- Leon Ware

Good Love -- Rome Jeffries

So Different -- Kinky Foxx

Moonshadow -- Labelle



Classic Rare Groove Vol 2 (Mastercuts/1994):



LA Night -- Yasuko Agawa

There's A Reason -- Hi-Tension

Barely Breaking Even -- Universal Robot Band

God Made Me Funky -- The Headhunters



Boogie Tunes 1 -- (Graphic/BMG UK/1988)



Boogie Times -- Derick

Can't You Feel It -- Michele

Hustlin (You Gotta Be Dancin) -- Black Ivory

Standing Right Here -- Melba Moore



Capitol Classics Vol 2 -- (Capitol 1989)



Be Thankful For What You Got -- William DeVaughn (1980 remake)

Hard To Get Around -- BBQ Band

Really Really Love You -- Cecil Parker

Promise Me -- Dayton



Urban Classics (Polydor 1987)



Blow Your Head -- Fred Wesley and the JBs

I Believe In Miracles -- Jackson Sisters

Hot Butterfly -- Greg Diamond Bionic Boogie

Everybody Loves the Sunshine -- Roy Ayers Ubiquity



get back at me,



kelvy