RAP KILLED DISCO?

[QUINNY]

BLAX: Why shouldn't rap be the current Jazz?
A lot of it is off the cuff i.e. improvised.
Its origins are black and it's danced to by urban blacks especially (just like original Dixieland Jazz, New orleans Jazz, Be Bop, Cool Jazz etc). Quite a few young Jazz artists use Rap and Hip Hop grooves. So why not?

[Blaxman]

On 2002-08-21 09:43, QUINNY wrote:
BLAX: Why shouldn't rap be the current Jazz?
A lot of it is off the cuff i.e. improvised.
Its origins are black and it's danced to by urban blacks especially (just like original Dixieland Jazz, New orleans Jazz, Be Bop, Cool Jazz etc). Quite a few young Jazz artists use Rap and Hip Hop grooves. So why not?

Quinny,

First, the current Jazz is......the Jazz itself!!! Jazz is alive and being played by lots and lots of young musicians.

Second, 90% of the rap is sampled from old soul and funk tunes. Just sampled. (I agree with you about improvisation, if you are talking about the mixing part of the today's rap or hip hop)

Third, to play Jazz you have, at least, to be a musician.....we dont know many rappers who are great musicians. I myself dont know anyone.

Four, like you said, young Jazz artists are using rap and hip hop grooves but, they are also using soul, funk, rock and many other styles of black music.

However, this is just MY opinion, right? I dont want to take out the value of your statement or opinion.....it's just my two cents.

Peace

P.S.
What I most dislike on Hip Hop is the aggresive lyrics...... :sad:


_________________
SENHORES DO GROOVE - BRAZIL

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Blaxman on 2002-08-21 10:35 ]</font>

[QUINNY]

BLAX: O.K. I see your point but........
Roobyde Re bob Be bop Scooby doo and guess what Blaxman, we love you. Almost like a Jazz Scat!? And there's still some doing it like this I'm sure.

[Blaxman]

On 2002-08-21 10:39, QUINNY wrote:
BLAX: O.K. I see your point but........
Roobyde Re bob Be bop Scooby doo and guess what Blaxman, we love you. Almost like a Jazz Scat!? And there's still some doing it like this I'm sure.

That's remember me.....Scatman John!! Good God!!! :lol:

[sutnop]

On 2002-08-20 21:29, nrgbeat wrote:

Other than a few exceptions (e.g. Will Smith) most of the rap that I have heard is either gangsta style or I wanna take your clothes off and spread your legs crap.

I don't hear too many rappers talking about family, religion, etc. Most of what I hear doesn't set a good example for the youth of today.

You don't want to call them hoodlums fine. I have my opinion and I think they are.

So How many Disco or Funk Acts
Talk about Religion and Family
unless it is the Christian Disco movmement I would find it invicible.....

[Outsider]

Here's one difference between rap and jazz: Jazz takes talent to perform. Also, jazz is actual music, not really fast talking to an electronic beat.

[QUINNY]

BUT.........Rap artists ARE talented. I couldn't make up those rhymes or be as clever in the phrasing.

[sirius]

Dear Friends!
The difference between the religious thing
in the 70ies and nowadays is, that it was
more cosmic in the past.
I mean, Marvin Gaye or Prince are religious
and talking about sexuality at the same time,
without discriminating women and minorities,
like the gay-community.
It is not necessary to tell, that "queers
should be crucified" like Shabba Ranks told
in public. The macho-movement in the hip-
hop-scene is terrible and I am not interested
in believing in violence and how to F*** so
many women as possible.
Maybe there are exceptions like BUSTA RHYMES
or MISS ELLIOT, but that´s really rare.
Rap is the answer to the white majority in
the US, and this in a violent way.
Disco-Music was the melting pot between all
races on earth and space and living their
sexualites...
Cosmic Love & Kisses From SIRIUS & DARKTUNES

[zeca azevedo]

On 2002-08-20 05:28, QUINNY wrote:
Many have posted to this board stating that Rap was responsible for the death of Disco.
I happen to disagree.
From a purely detached perpective, Rap was probably the most important black music genre of the 20th century after jazz. Both managed to cross the traditional colour barriers and reach out to a worldwide audience over a long time frame. Both went on to be major vehicles for future music development.
On the other hand Disco in it's purest, original form was merely a passing phase when compared to Rap. Disco would have died anyway, because the music itself wasn't strong enough to sustain it and music genres will always be superceded by something else. There were too many copyists who didn't move the music forward enough. If it were stronger it would have continued. Right?
Sorry if this winds you up, but It's the truth so far as I can see it.
If Disco did die, for me it was 1987 when house began to take over and I began to feel old in relation to the punters I played to. That was my problem, not the music's.

Before you all condemn me remember a few things.
1. I was there at the time.
2. I was a pro club DJ (1972-1987) earning a paltry living (i.e. I was in it 'cos I loved the music I was playing)

Hey guys,

let me put two coins on this topic. Just for the record: RAP MUSIC is truly one of the most important musical genres to appear in the XX century. The social and cultural relevance of a musical genre does not rely exclusively on personal tastes - everybody's free to like or dislike RAP MUSIC, but everybody have to recognize and accept the social and the cultural relevance of this genre of popular music and urban culture. The impact of RAP MUSIC and HIP-HOP CULTURE on POP CULTURE and on society is gigantic - RAP MUSIC changed ROCK, SOUL, POP, DANCE and even JAZZ. For me, it's kinda strange that, after 20 years or more of HIP-HOP history, people still don't accept this music.

Anyway, I want to say that I admire lots of rappers and producers, especially these: KURTIS BLOW, GRANDMASTER FLASH, SUGARHILL GANG, FAT BOYS, RUN DMC, LL COOL J, PUBLIC ENEMY, N.W.A, ICE CUBE, GANG STARR, DR. DRE (a genius, one of the greatest record producers to appear in pop music in the last 20 years), LAURYN HILL, MISSY ELLIOT, KELIS and my beloved MARY J BLIGE, the one and only QUEEN OF HIP-HOP SOUL!

For those who think that RAP KILLED DISCO, I want to ask: DISCO KILLED SOUL MUSIC? My answer to both questions is NO!

Peace,

zeca azevedo, not a sucker M.C.!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zeca azevedo on 2002-08-22 09:13 ]</font>

[Blaxman]

On 2002-08-22 09:08, zeca azevedo wrote:

For me, it's kinda strange that, after 20 years or more of HIP-HOP history, people still don't accept this music.

Zeca,

It is not about to "accept" is all about to "like" ......

Hip-Hop changed the music industry for sure but, sometimes I wonder:

Wich is the "musical" importance of Hip-Hop?? I can see the "social" and "cultural" importance but, musically speaking........I dont think so! It's all about "production style" (In my humble opinion, of course).

Anyway, one more time I must say, Rap/Hip-Hop has nothing to do with the death of disco.

Peace

[nonkel808]

Did rap kill disco? NO
Did rap evolve from disco? YES
Is rap disco of today? YES and NO!
That's right!
I think that rap has evolved in such a way that there are different styles of rap these day.

There's the R&B RAP: well you know them, those tunes up in the charts these days. Originally most of those tunes used soul, funk and disco samples, but nowadays producers found an own sound, like the Neptunes, missy,...
Is this the disco of today? YES it is, i've been to many of these HipHop-R&B clubs, and it amazes me how many people are shakin their most funky moves in a disco way. And best of all: they are all singin allong with the music!!!!!!! just like disco back in the days.
I know that technically spoken, R&Brap is not disco, but sometimes the partyvibes in those clubs are very disco. (only difference with disco: Hiphop is not gay-friendly, sorry guys :roll: )

But then there's also UNDERGROUND Hiphop. In which the artist focus around the 4 aspects of hiphop: RAP, TURNTABALISM, BEATBOXING & BREAKDANCING! It is regarded as an artform to the makers and the buyers of this music. Those people are very much involved with one or more off those elements, and try to create, innovate and be openminded. I'm pretty much sure that this is not the music played on mainstream radios in USA, but its alive and kickin in the underground, and in EUROPE!!!!!!
Whenever one off those artist come to belgium, they always say we are much more INTO the music than amercicans.
Now is this the disco of today? Naaah, i've been to this kind of parties to, and mostly you go there to SEE and HEAR the performances by the Dj's, MC's, Breakdancers and beatboxes. Only few people dance on those parties, but still have a great time!!

Ah, it's all just a state of mind! If ya like Hiphop or not, just remember that it once started from disco, but is now an own form of music!
And disco died for other reasons! Mostly for cultural, political and technological reasons. And because in the 80's MTV mainly played "white" videoclips, and thats a rock thing right!?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: nonkel808 on 2002-08-22 09:45 ]</font>

[zeca azevedo]

On 2002-08-22 09:28, Blaxman wrote:
It is not about to "accept" is all about to "like" ......

Well my dear friend BLAX,

I disagree with you on this one. Even after 20 years or more of RAP, people who don't like this music don't ACCEPT it too. You can like it or not, but you have to accept the fact that RAP MUSIC is a vital, central expression of black pop culture of the last two decades. When people say that RAP is not music, they're probably talking about the fact that RAP MUSIC is mostly spoken words and rhythm. I'm a man of melody, I'm a sucker for beautiful pop melodies, but I can recognize the force and the quality of RAP MUSIC as a musical genre. When it comes to put an entire musical genre on the trash can (no matter what genre is), you can count me OUT! Does anybody here remember the DISCO backlash, guys putting fire on LPs and all that horrible stuff?

Peace and RAP for everyone,

zeca azevedo, not a cultural TORQUEMADA.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zeca azevedo on 2002-08-22 09:57 ]</font>

[Blaxman]

On 2002-08-22 09:52, zeca azevedo wrote:

Well my dear friend BLAX,

I disagree with you on this one. Even after 20 years or more of RAP, people who don't like this music don't ACCEPT it too. You can like it or not, but you have to accept the fact that RAP MUSIC is a vital, central expression of black pop culture of the last two decades. When people say that RAP is not music, they're probably talking about the fact that RAP MUSIC is mostly spoken words and rhythm. I'm a man of melody, I'm a sucker for beutiful pop melodies, but I can recognize the force and the quality of RAP MUSIC as a musical genre. When it comes to put an entire musical genre on the trash can (no matter what genre is), you can count me OUT! Does anybody here remember the DISCO backlash, guys putting fire on LPs and all that horrible stuff?

Peace and RAP for everyone,

zeca azevedo, not a cultural TORQUEMADA.

Zeca,

You are not disagreeing with me, cause I'm not puting nothing on the trash can!! I did talk that I'm dont think Hip-Hop is a "really good" music genre. In my OWN opinion. You know that I worked with rappers recently, right? Somehow, I like Rap but, I not consider it like Jazz, R&B, Funk, or Disco. It's all about my own vision of music.

Look, I dont like Rock!! It dont means...I want destroy it!!! It means just...I dont like Rock!!

Peace



_________________
SENHORES DO GROOVE - BRAZIL

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Blaxman on 2002-08-22 14:15 ]</font>

[sutnop]

one thing I can't stand is high BPM

If it has a high like BPM frequencey


2Unlimited
666
Aquagen
Aqua
Bomfunk MC's
Capella
Darude
etc..........

or is called

House
Jungle
Rave
Techno
Drum N Bass
EuroDance
Trance



its bad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: sutnop on 2002-08-23 08:29 ]</font>

[The Lord of Flatbush]

What's interesting about this opinion, is that it's TRUE! Some thought Hip-Hop wouldn't have lasted this long. There are a few of the legends still left to provide us with a hit record over the last, fifteen years. KRS-ONE is still around, even though his stuff is dedicated to the underground. LL COOL J is coming out with TEN representing his tenth LP release. RAKIM blessed us with great lyrics for TRUTH HURTS LP; With a soon to be released LP that will please his fans for sure. This is just to name a few of the pioneers that are still left. Honorable mention: Will Smith comes out with one LP a year that crosses over to sell at least one million copies. The difference with today's R&B is that producer's ran out of ideas to cover and lack in originality. In New York City, the best rappers in my opinion came out of the five boroughs. Kurtis Blow, Afrika Bambaataa, RUN-DMC, EPMD, Public Enemy, LL COOL J, ERIC B & RAKIM, BIZ MARKIE, Big Daddy Kane, De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, Gang Starr, .... I can go on and on.... My point is this, RAP didn't destroy Disco, people did. The haters who didn't have respect for the freak, the hustle and other dance crazes that revolutionized the seventies. A genre of music that replaced another type should get credit for keeping the beat alive. Change doesn't have to be accepted in society, that's why we have memories to go by.



DAYS GO BY .....

On 2002-08-22 09:52, zeca azevedo wrote:

Well my dear friend BLAX,

I disagree with you on this one. Even after 20 years or more of RAP, people who don't like this music don't ACCEPT it too. You can like it or not, but you have to accept the fact that RAP MUSIC is a vital, central expression of black pop culture of the last two decades. When people say that RAP is not music, they're probably talking about the fact that RAP MUSIC is mostly spoken words and rhythm. I'm a man of melody, I'm a sucker for beautiful pop melodies, but I can recognize the force and the quality of RAP MUSIC as a musical genre. When it comes to put an entire musical genre on the trash can (no matter what genre is), you can count me OUT! Does anybody here remember the DISCO backlash, guys putting fire on LPs and all that horrible stuff?

Peace and RAP for everyone,

zeca azevedo, not a cultural TORQUEMADA.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zeca azevedo on 2002-08-22 09:57 ]</font>