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Disco Music > Discotheques and Clubs Index > 12 West
12 West
491 West Street (West Village)
New York, New York
Popular club until the Saint hit the New York scene. Later reopened as River Club.
DJs:
Robbie Leslie
Alan Dodd
Jim Evangelista
Light man:
Richard Tucker
Please feel free to link to this page by using this URL:
http://www.discomusic.com/clubs-more/886_0_6_0_C/
COMMENTS ON THIS DISCO / DISCOTHEQUE / NIGHTCLUB
My favorite place in the world! Other great DJ's that spinned here included Sharon White and the late,great Jim Burgess and Roy Thode.
Thank you for including this incedible place on your list!
I know that Tom Savarese also was a DJ at this great club. Why is he not listed?
One of many comments that I will make about Robbie Leslie....
He the the DJ's DJ.........There isn't a DJ professional or not who is not AWED by Robbie Leslie.........
A talent beyond words.........Robbie is the "reference point" by which any DJ should be measured........
More to say......but I will shssss for now!
While I do strongly agree with Alex on his comments about Robbie, I do believe that Tom Savarese needs to be listed as one of the clubs DJs; Tom would also create an increatable trip with his selection of music and style of spinning.
There is no DOUBT in my mind or nor should there be in anyone's mind that Tom Savarese was one of the greatest DJs and by no means did I want to take away from Tom Savarese's greatness with my commments about Robbie Leslie, but with that said, Robbie is, was and will be till Guiness Book of Records proves us differently, the greatest DJ ever.
His understanding of musical construction and drama far surpasses that of the greats of his time and present time...He was and is consistently superb while many of the other greats has many "hit or misses" kinda performances, it was rare that Robbie Leslie had a "miss" kinda night...
He has what I would call a sort of "understatment" with his ability to make DJing look so eloquent and with such FINESSE and sophistication.....
Sort of the Leornard Bernstein of DJing.....I remember Robbie Leslie at Studio 54 and the Palladium with his records all organized in plastic sleeves, all his Hot Tracks, Disconets in one bin....His early evening, late evening...It was such a pleasure to see such aesthetics in preparation and in "a nutshell" RAW TALENT...... There were times where the mixes were so well entrenched within each other (for lack of a better word) that you had no clue what was blending in until it rose above the "song that was playing" and it was in your face to enjoy and fathom..........
Mixes that were so well timed that when the verse of one song ended, the verse of another song began and so forth.......Songs these days don't lend themselves to this kind of mixing creativity, primarily because there are so many different simultaneously mixes of a song that you have no clue what you are listening to.......Versions of songs need to co-exist with the DJs and with the public so that the DJs can develop their presentation as times goes by.......(Oops is that not a standard song???)
Anyway, more to come..
Kudos to Tom Savarese.....But KuKudos to Robbie Leslie..
Alex
A couple of additional comments......
Sharon White and Roy Thode NEVER played at 12 West to my knowledge and I have confirmed this with friends who know about this kinda stuff....
Sharon White did INDEED play at The River Club..............
Some DJs in addition to Sir Robbie Leslie who played at the River Club were:
Alan Dodd
Jim Evangelista...and..
Jimmy Stuard (this gentlemen died at the Everard Baths fire.....) for those who knew and loved him..........
I MUST COMMENT THAT AMONG THE GREAT DJS AT 12 WEST WAS JIMMY STUARD, WHOSE LIFE WAS CUT OFF TOO SOON.HIS POTENTIAL FOR GREATNESS IS UNPARALLED
BARRY LEDERER
OF GRAEBAR-THE SOUND OF 12 WEST TROCADERO, PROBE AND THE SAINT
I HAVE READ THE ABOVE COMMENTS AND THEY ALL ARE TRUE. THERE WERE MANY GREAT DJS AT THIS CLUB. HOWEVER, NO MATTER HOW GREAT TOM WAS OR ROBBIE FOR THAT MATTER, I STILL CONTEND THAT JIMMY STUARD TOPS THE BILL. THE OTHERS RANK JUST AS HIGH, BUT JIMMY HAD MAGIC IN HIM.
BARRY
I would love to get my hands on some of Jimmy's live performance tapes? This would bring me such joy!
It occurred to me as I researched here, I was still in college and interning with IBM, so it must have been around 1976-77. I got into the 12 West with some friends. We'd been to the Cowboys and Cowgirls. My then acquaintance and later to be good friend Marsha Stern was with us, and she brought me into the DJ booth and introduced me to Sharon White. It IS possible that Sharon was just filling in.
I also do recall that, of all the clubs I've ever been to, I've never been higher than at 12 West. I don't know, I just felt more comfortable getting high there than anywhere else (including the Saint, where EVERYONE was trippin').
12 West was a once-in-a-lifetime experience. It was also the timing. Way back then, you could walk around the neighborhood in relative safety, particularly if you were in a group. Gay bashing started much later on, parallel to the onset of the crack epidemic and AIDS-related homophobia.
One last comment: Why all this fuss over Jimmy Stuard? In the music business, when somebody makes some very fine product, then dies suddenly, somehow the empathy/sympathy thing kicks in and they're elevated to martyr/saint status. Other artists who create great product which becomes popular but then survive, never to eclipse or at least equal the popularity of a certain hit or in Jimmy's case the 12 West gig, merely 'cause they survive, are treated rather cruelly. The words "one-hit-wonder" and "has-been" come to mind.
Finally, let me qualify. I feel just as bad or more so than anyone else about anyone who leaves this earth suddenly, and perhaps in as much pain and fear as Mr. Stuard. I just wonder why he thought so little of himself that he had to resort to the nameless one-night stands of a bathhouse, given his celebrity and all. Could he not have connected and developed a relationship, regardless how shallow, with anyone he saw at the venerable club. It seems to me there were plenty of eligible, very handsome young men (and women) in attendance every night.
I had the pleasure of doing lights, as well as dj from time to time, at 12 West for almost 3 years.
There was no other club quite like it. It wasn't that it was the most technogically advanced, although it had one the most fabulous sound sound systems in NYC. The roman area-like layout of the room was great for letting people particiate in, as well as observe, the party. It had no liquor license so there was no alcohol, just other stuff(lol) which people brought themselves. This made for a wonderfully up and friendly energy in the club.
It was also a place where people went for the music, first. While it was a very sexy vibe in the club, it wasn't a meatmarket/pickup type of thing. There were two sky lights in the main room that would flood the room with sunlight. It was a pre "Saint round-the-clock" party that rarely went past 7:30 am. but never left you feeling unsatisfied.
I remember the first time went in 1976 as a wide-eyed 16 yr. old, fresh out of the closet. I felt like I had landed on another planet. Jimmy Stuard was playing. It was the first time I heard someone do an "echo" with two copies of the same song. I thought it was amazing. The song was "Let's Get It Together" by El Coco. I had no idea at the time that I'd be doing the lights in less than a year from that night.
I could go on and on about how many wonderful times I had in that dj booth with the likes of Jim Burgess, Robbie Leslie, Alan Dodd and many other dj's.
It was one of those special clubs which unfortunately cannot be re-created. Anyone who has been there I'm sure would agree.
While Barry Lederer was half of the great GRAEBAR team, it was Peter Spar who masterminded the sound systems behind 12 West, The Saint, Probe and a multitude of other clubs. Barry was primarily involved in fashion shows and mobile sound installations while Peter Spar was the SHEER GENIUS of sound in other areas. This is not to take away from Richard Long who designed the sound for Paradise Garage & others or Alex Rosner, another sound designer.
The above comment is somewhat correct, but not entirely.
Yes Peter was by all means a genious in putting together all the systems we did. However both Peter and i worked on the sound from my apt and my office unbeknownst to many, Peter would assemble what he thought was good and we would both go over what was needed to make it complete and sounding like it should. This is no ways is take take anything away from Peter's accomplishment, but in the long run, it was a consensus between the 2 of us of how the system would sound. Peter was never great in dealing with club owners. With my extensive experience in other areas, i was the necessary go -between for Peter and the club owner. Had this not been the case, many of our systems would never had seen the light of day due to the stubborn nature of my partner and long lost friend.
Barry a.k.a. DJBJ
12 West was my 1st gay club experience, before I was even all the way out myself. I was never the same & never heard music the same way again. It was where I learned that white boys COULD indeed dance. At the end of the night , the beat was so deeply imbedded in me that to ths day, I start to move instinctively.
The DJ's at 12 West were Jim, Paul, Alan, Jim B., Robbie and Jimmy E. Roy never played at 12 West. I was the fan dancer on the Southwest corner wall directly across from the DJ both to the left of the rythm section. Barry, I agree with you, Jim was the best at 12 West. When he died in the EVerhard Fire I was devestated. I still believe today that fire was set on purpose. I couldn't believe we lost our grestest DJ of that era. But I do hold a special place for Alan Dodd. Hell they were all good. 12 West was home. The sound system was the best and if truth must be told. The music played at 12 West was far better then even at The Saint. They had our DJ's at The Saint, but somehow, my tapes of the music at The West were better. "Saturday night shinning on my sunday morning face". That sunlight coming through those skylights...hmmmm..magical..
Teddy
I remember when 12 West got started. A friend of mine, Todd, gave me a form to fill out so I could become a member. If I remember correctly, membership costed 15 dollars. Back then, I was young and a fool. I never became a member.
As fate would have it, my involvement with 12 West heightened through the friendship with the Michigan boys - I think Alan Dodd was one of them? I use to live with his red haired brother and Florian Ceglerik who use to do some of the decorations (occasinally, I would help Florian with some of the decorations since we were roomates and both attended Parson's. Of course this connection allowed us to be scooted in and not be a part of the long lines - thank god for that!). I wonder if anyone remembers the coolers with acid, THC, and Speed?
Alan, when he started at 12 West, did not have much knowledge about mixing but I know the owner - one of the owners? - Michael(?) took him under his wing. I remember how insecure Alan was. He knew that a botch up meant being stoned from the crowd (the worst thing that could happen when you are tripping and the DJ unintentionally skips a beat.)
I wonder what ever happend to Alan, his brother and Florian? Garrett
Jimmy Stuard was my DJ mentor and got me my first gig at the 1270 in Boston in 1975, the club he worked until his pilgrimage to 12 West. Back in those days it was all 45's and LP cuts. How did we do it? Patience and steady hands, that's how! It's amazing to see how far technology has come.
I remember many nights of closing the 1270 at 2 AM and driving to NYC to hear Jimmy spin well into the daylight hours at 12 West. I'd bring my tambourine and dance in the area directly in front of the DJ booth. Jimmy would always have a handful of joints for me. We LOVED to smoke together! I was devasted by his death. I remember staying at Tony and Alan's place when I went down for his service at Campbell's Funeral Home. Too bad we never got to hear Jimmy spin at the Saint...
As for me, I'm still spinning gigs all over the country and loving it. Sharon White and I often comment on how we're the grandmothers of all the DJ's! Robbie Leslie and I are often DJ's that are hired by RSVP Vacations for their cruises. See, there's a bunch of us that are still in the biz!
The only two clubs I never spun at that were dreams of mine were 12 West and the Saint. I certainly did put in many hours dancing at both establishments, though! Great memories...
DJ Wendy Hunt
SENTIMENTALLY YOU!
HI,
REREADING SOME OF THE ABOVE COMMENTS THAT WERE POSTED SOME TIME AGO, I FEEL THERE ARE A FEW POINTS THAT HAVE TO BE COMMENTED ON
FIRST OF ALL, IT IS GREAT TO HEAR FROM WENDY. SHE IS ONE OF THE BEST DJS.(AND WENDY-DANAE SAYS HELLO)
A COMMENT POSTED BY JUDY DOGGIE I FEEL IS UNWARRANTED. DURING THOSE YEARS, WE ALL WENT OUT AND PLAYED. THE FACT THE JIMMY STUARD DID IT AND WAS A "STAR" MEANS NOTHING MORE THAN LIKE US ALL, HE WANTED A GOOD TIME.
AND FOR THE COMMENT ABOUT HIM BEING AROUND FOR SUCH SHORT TIME AND HIS SUDDEN DEMISE, DOES NOT DIMISH HIS STATUE AS AN ICON.
FOR EXAMPLE, THERE WAS JAMES DEAN. NEED I SAY MORE.
TOM SAVARESE WAS A GREAT DJ, BUT HE WAS EVENTUALLY FIRED FROM 12 WEST.THE REASON BEING THAT HIS MUSIC WAS TOO PROGRESSIVE AND HE PLAYED"OVER THE HEADS" OF THE AUDIENCE.'A TOP DJ PLAYS FOR THE CROWD, NOT FOR HIMSELF.
12 WEST AS WE ALL KNOW WAS AMOMENT IN TIME AND CAN NEVER BE DUPLICATED.
I AM SO GLAD I WAS PART OF IT
BARRY
Trivia Question: Jimmy Stuard played a song at 1270 in Boston and 12 West at "last call". The lyrics began "It's all over, it's all over..time I wanted to care...
What is the name of this song and who sang it?
It could easily have been It's OVER by Alma Faye on Casablanca............White Promo 8 minutes I believe.....
To all my dear friends who know about this kinda stuff! Don't hide in the bushes, come out and give us feedback...? Am I correct w/the It's Over - Alma Faye?
I don't think it was the Alma Faye song. Didn't her song start "Its over, call it a day...” Her song came out in 1978 (?) Jimmy Stuard played the “It’s All Over” I’m thinking about years before he died at the Everard Baths on May 25, 1977.
The song “Its All Over”, that I remember, was sung by a man. The first time I heard Jimmy play it was on a Saturday night at a place called the "Other Side.” I remember Jimmy playing there for only a few weekend nights before he moved to the 1270. This was sometime in 1972-73. I remember him bringing in and setting up his own equipment – speakers and a turn table!
"It's All Over" is done by Charles Mann and, indeed, was Jimmy's signature song for the end of the night.
Thanks for the nice comments, Barry! I'm so glad to hear from those of us that are still around....and some of us STILL spinning!!
Wendy
Was anyone out there at the Rhinestone Cowboy party?
The club was done up in a glam western motif. Florian did a great job with the decor. Alan Dodd did a production number overlaying, "Rhinestone Cowboy" by Glen Campbell over Gino Soccio's "Dancer", that was a mixing masterpiece! The room was packed to the gills! Everyone when wild. It was one of the moments when I had difficulty doing the lights because I was so floored by what I was hearing. I looked over at Alan and he looked back with this sheepish grin on his face cause he knew he had that room in the palm of his hand. Good times...I just thought I'd share that one.
Richard
I just stumbled on this website at 5 AM Oct 12. I was a DJ during the summer of 1972 and 1973 at The A House in Provincetown. In 1973, Jimmy Stuard walked into the A House and was so inspired by my style of playing music that he wanted to become a DJ. My closing song every night was "It's All Over" by Charles Mann. When I moved to Boston in the fall of 1973, I became the DJ at a new club called Styx. Jimmy finally convinced the managers at The 1270 to let him be the DJ instead of having a juke box! Jimmy and I spent hours and hours every day practicing together and perfecting our style of mixing records that we created together. When he started at the 1270, I gave him a copy of "It's All Over" as a good luck gift. Not only was he a brilliant DJ, he was my best friend. Jimmy made 12 West a magical place, but The Saint, as far as I'm concerned, was the Ultimate club of all times. I had the good fortune of doing guest spots at both 12 West and The Saint. The Saint was the type of club that both Jimmy and I talked about, and dreamed of playing at long before it ever existed. My one regret is that Jimmy passed away before he had a chance to DJ at The Saint.
Kudos to you Wendy Hunt! And Thanks! It's nice to know someone in my age group still has "long term memory!" Danae Jacovidis reflections were a nice, and surprising, addition to the story.
Not to be confused with Cajun Swamp singer Charles Mann (aka Charles Louis Dominique), "Philly Sound" Charles Mann sang "It's All Over" on his first and last album "Say You Love Me Too” ABC Records 1973.
After 30+ years, I was able to buy the album on EBay. When I went to find a stylus for the turntable, I came across this site...
[http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nick.rennie/northernsoulmusicnewsite/2006site/music7.html
Thank you Patience! Like I said, I just discovered this site, and like as all of us, have many more reflections about that era. I lived it - it was exciting - and I'm sure I'll keep checking back to fill in the blank spaces if I can. Actually, I'm wondering what year Infinity opened. I went there with Steve Rubell and Jon Addison back when they were opening 15 Lansdowne Street in Boston. Jim Burgess was the DJ that night. Steve and Jon also took me to Le Jardin, where I did an impromptu DJ guest spot. I just can't remember what year that was! So much for "long term memory" on my part! And yes, "It's All Over" was the first cut on side one of Charles Mann's album "Say You Love Me Too" on ABC Records, released in 1973. I still have 3 albums in my record collection!
Jimmy Stuard, I believe played at Les mouches. We all, at Les Mouches were devistated, after all we were like one big family. The entire staff would either go to 12 West or flamingo when we closed for the night (loved Howard Merrit and Boom boom Richie Rivera)
I use to work at Les Mouches. I was one of the original fan dancers and also wore indian ankle bells on the banquet in front of the dj booth. My group consisted of Roger Pippen, Derf Belvedare, Elliot Molia, Alyn Pollard (and his lover Carlos), Scott, Dr. Colenda, Kenny and Lara Lepold. We all danced in the VIP Corner where the controls for the exhaust fans were.
Another Dj, and a friend, was Paul Polis, who was from Atlanta like Jim Burgess (who disliked Paul).
The night at the Saint when Jim burgess walked out of the DJ booth, because he wanted a cut of the door $$$, Bruce Mailman said if he walked out, he would never work again. I believe Alan Dodd took over when Jim Burgess walked out. Jim came over to me and said "Lee, they pay me for a specific time, that time is over, unless they pay me I refuse to play any more!"
It is sad that today nobody plays instruments (i.e. castinets, tamberines). There was one guy who use to play two tamberines against his body it was like watching an artist as he danced and wacked his tamberines against his sweaty limber body.
Later I use to use tank tops and tshirts in place of fans, after my leather fans were stolen at the Underground one sunday. They were so wet with sweat, I could snap my material and snap a cigarette out of the hand of a fool walking through the dance floor with a lite cigarette.
One night at the Ice palace will go down in history. Roy was playing and suddenly the Ice Palace dance floor gave way,,, nobody stopped. Roy continued playing and the hot sweaty men continued dancing as the dance floor dropped a few feet.
One of my favorite parties was the Birthday party for Syvester & the industry party (ABC party). Another time Ann Margret was suppose to sing, but her husband didn't like the idea that there was no barrier between her and the crowd. She never did get to sing because of that. I remember Tony Demartino telling me about it.
Sleez was my favorite dance time with such songs as "Take off Your Makeup", "We are family". The sun would be streaming through the skylight and all those palm plants hanging from the ceiling. I remeber one winter they opend the front door, and you couldn't see a thing there was so much steam streaming out the door.
There was on short guy who was deaf and danced with cowboy boots,,, during sleez he would glide around the dance floor near the front door, moving so gracefully without bumping into anybody.
One night Patty LaPone sang at Les mouches' cabaret,,, (She was staring in the broadway show Evita) Cary Finklestein, one of owners of Les Mouches (and one of the original owners of 12 west) and a group of us, took Patty to 12 West. As I snapped open my fans and stated dancing on a banquet in the lounge,, Patti said to me "Lee, we should have you dance in the show with those fans of yours (which were black leather with silver rays)". I have never seen so many fantastic dancers, but why do those guys have rags sticking out of their mouths (of course everybody was either on dust or dust with Eythel Chloride).
Les Mouches had a staff (between the resturant and disco)of about 70 guys. We usually all went in mass at the end of the night to either 12 West, Flamingo (loved both Howard Merritt and Boom Boom Richie Rivera) or the Paradise Garage. We literally brought the party with us. Especially when the party favor of choice that year was Clear Light (blue and then green)with a touch of Magic Mushrooms (with apple sauce).
Today, nobdy has what we like to call as Dance Manners. Back then, no matter how crowded 12 dance floor was, nobody ever bumped into anybody else and if someone wanted to walk on to the dance floor, they danced their way through the crowd,, Now, they just shoved their way through, not caring who they knock out of sinq. In all my years dancing in the clubs, I never remember seeing an ambulence come and take some guy who OD'd, like they do now.
The only incident I can remember was at the saint. I was with Mark Ackermann (who did the lights) and some guy lost all his clothes and they had to give the poor guy a garbage bag to wear to go home. We all had a big laugh about it when we went upstairs to Mark's original apt (which was above the Saint.
As far as Peter Spar (he was such a sweet heart and so dam hot, I had such a major crush on Peter), I do believe he (along with his partner) did all the sound systems at 12 West, Les mouches and the Saint. I remember Cary telling me that Peter was a Genius with sound and Mark was a genius with light
systems.
AH What great memories. I still play the tapes that Bob Bunting gave me as a present from Moonshadows and I have a few of Robbie Leslie's,
Yes, JudyDoggie,
If you knew Marsha Stern, you were absolutely correct because she and Sharon White were an item and Sharon did fill in at 12 West, even did it when I was there in the '78-'79 time frame. Marsha Stern was a Production Assistant along with me Ramon Sandoval and Rafael Torres on the Midnight Rhythm and Love at First Bite albums.
I read all these comments, and I chuckle. you guys throw the word "best" around too easily. Granted, all these deejays were great, but it is arrogance to call any of them THE BEST!! That means, absolutely no one better!! WRONG!! There are great deejays everywhere in the world who chuckled at those statements. Have you heard EVERY DEE JAY IN THE WORLD? You had to, to be able to call anyone the BEST!! And then there are STYLES, each deejay has one. Some styles are liked by some but not by others. And then there is LOCATION! Where these deejays played means a lot as well. Many great deejays played in Chicago and Los Angeles, and maybe HOBOKEN!! If they had been at STUDIO 54, maybe you would be referring to them as THE BEST! Calling anyone THE BEST is WRONG! I heard all these guys , I liked Scotty Blackwell better. That's my opinion. Some LOVED Bobby V, or Bobby G. What category would you put JELLYBEAN or PINKY in?? They have also been called THE BEST. Is there a competition that I was not aware of?? Was there a competition I missed somewhere? What makes a deejay THE BEST?? His music, his mixing, the timing, does he remix? Stop this foolishness, there is NO-WAY any single deejay was THE BEST!! I know that some of you are passionate about what you say, but passion isn't what makes a great deejay, not on its own. There is a lot of things to be considered to call someone the BEST!! As a formidable deejay myself, you insult me and others like me with such foolish statements. I'd put my LIVE remixing talents in a showdown with ANYONE!! But that certainly doesn't make me THE BEST!! But if I had been in a top New York Club, some would have called me that, they too, would have been wrong!! There is no, never was, never will be ONE deejay who could be called THE BEST!!
Dear Vyniljunkie,
I felt that the term “the best” was used as an endearment of the person, and that place in time which we, collectively, shared for a minute, not arrogance, and certainly not “competition.”
Your statement “calling anyone THE BEST is WRONG!” – didn’t prevent you from tooting your own horn “as one of the very best LIVE in club, using actual vinyl, remixers of all-time.” in your bio. Who wrote that? Truthfully, I have never heard of you, maybe you are "the best."
It seems to me that you are in a lot of pain about this “best” issue. Why? You got to play music, party, make friends and have fun. I say that makes you ahead of the game! You could have been working at the Post Office or Walmart! So lighten up! People in our age group have stroked out on less.
Good point! Well taken!! I am old, feel old, but my DISCO mind is alive and well!! Thank God for that!! While " I toot my own horn" I also added that calling ME or anyone else the very best is wrong.The fact that you never heard of me proves a point, if you are not a "name" deejay from New York, no-one knows you! I have been at this for so many long years, I couldn't help but get experienced. And it is experience in any job, that makes you great. I need no-one to tell me that, those who heard me enjoyed me. And most importantly, I survived it all!! It is just an opinion. But your point was taken to heart. Who really cares? We are old, maybe it is the frustration of knowing that back in the late 70's and early 80's, an average deejay got paid $100 bucks a night. A great deejay, maybe $500. Today, these so-called deejays can make tens of thousands, and there were literally hundreds of my generation's deejays that were so much better than these guys. Sorry, just an old a****** rambling on. Thanks for the reality check!!
Just to let you know,, Cary Finklestein,one of the original owners of 12 West (later opened Les Mouches), passed away the other day (see Les Mouches postings), on April 23, 2008
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